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Old 12-05-04, 03:29 AM   #31
crocdoc
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
If the local environment is in a state of stasis (unchanging) and the local fauna have evolved for thousands (millions) of years to exploit their respective niches to the fullest...
That's a nice big 'if' - in fact that's a massive 'if' - but where on earth are you going to find such a stable, unchanging environment? Certainly not in Australia, where the largest radiation in varanids has occurred. How would such a radiation occur if all of the monitors were so inbred as to reduce genetic diversity, anyway? Why aren't they all one, homogenous species? Perhaps they speciated ages ago, before developing this tendency to inbreed and it is just a massive coincidence that the popularity of monitors as pets is occuring at the end of monitor radiation, while they are at their most diverse in terms of numbers of species but are going through their stable, non-changing period? Or perhaps they have breeding patterns like every other animal on the planet and are still evolving?

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Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle

And this is the very core as to why is a BIOLOGICAL NO-NO to release animals even 1 or 2 km from where they are collected. Ever wonder why all the books on reptile collecting suggest to release the animal(s) PRECISELY where they were found?
The reason it's a no no to release animals away from where they were caught is because there are differences between one locale and the other. That doesn't mean that all of the animals in one area are so inbred as to be genetically non-diverse, it just means that they share certain traits in common. If I caught a diamond python tomorrow, drove a few hours north or west and released it, I'd be releasing it into carpet python country. That's a clearly visible difference, but the same thing happens on a smaller scale closer in. It's still a big leap of faith to go from recognising that there are locale differences to saying that they inbreed intentionally. Within any locale there are still large numbers of individuals so that they needn't be inbred to all be similar in some regards.

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Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
Nature is complicated. Saying that inbreeding is ALWAYS bad and serves no purpose because its based on HUMAN cultural influences is just as bad
I am not saying inbreeding is always bad because of human cultural issues with it, I'm saying that there is no evidence of any animal in nature that intentionally inbreeds for any reason, and I don't think monitors are going to be special in that regard, either. What happens in captivity is another story altogether and I have no issues with that. The current thread is about whether or not monitors specifically seek out siblings as mates.


Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
If genetic diversity was so great across the board, then why aren't all the scientists catching animals from different metapopulations and releasing them into others. More gene flow, more diversity, it would great!! Nope.
Genetic diversity is great, but the reason scientists don't do what you are suggesting is because they recognise that locales differ.

I'll give you an example: Sumatran tigers are on their way out. Last I heard there were fewer than 40 individuals left in the wild. It's starting to get to a point where loss in genetic diversity will cause long term issues with this race of tiger. No scientist would suggest capturing a few of the more common Bengal tigers and introducing them to Sumatra, for as much as it would introduce more genetic diversity it would destroy the integrity of the locale (in this instance a subspecies, but not all locale specific populations have differentiated to that point).
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Old 12-05-04, 03:55 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
If the local environment is in a state of stasis (unchanging) and the local fauna have evolved for thousands (millions) of years to exploit their respective niches to the fullest, being reflected in their genomes (obviously), then how is introducing genetic diversity going to help them? Obviously it would help them against unwanted change (adaptation purposes)
Getting back to this point, I should mention that 'not being bad' is usually not enough of a selective pressure for a behaviour or phsical trait to evolve. In other words, for monitors to have gone to the complete opposite of all other animals by becoming intentional inbreeders, they wouldn't do it because it will not harm them in an (at this point mythical) unchanging environment. There'd have to be some sort of positive selection going on to change behaviours that pointedly. i.e. there would have to be an advantage for them to develop such a breeding pattern. What advantage would that be?

By the way, the reasons it isn't good to release animals away from where you find them aren't only about locale/genetic issues, but population dynamics. Wild animals have home ranges, territories, burrows etc (depending on the species) and throwing and animal into an environment far from home could wreck things for it and/or its neighbours.
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Old 12-05-04, 06:30 PM   #33
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throwing and animal into an environment far from home could wreck things for it and/or its neighbours.
Gotta agree there. All it takes is a trip to south Florida to see what that does. Yes the monitors released there are thriving and breeding. Might spend my next vacation wandering the swamps.

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Old 12-05-04, 06:54 PM   #34
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Actually, what I was referring to was native animals being released where they weren't caught, but within the habitat in which the species naturally occurs.

Ferals are another disaster story altogether.
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Old 12-05-04, 07:23 PM   #35
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You guys have cane toads, wild pigs and such, causing problems right...

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Old 12-05-04, 07:42 PM   #36
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Yes, we certainly do.
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Old 12-08-04, 11:44 AM   #37
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im only just starting out with raising savanna monitors and i was wondering if anyone can give meany advice or tips on how to care for and raise my monitors. adeal temp and humidity for cages and nests will help me out a lot too plus feeding tips. thanks for any help.
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Old 12-08-04, 01:55 PM   #38
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Hi,
Go find Daniel Bennett's book, Savanna Monitors and it will give you a good backround for what savanna monitors do in the wild; how does this help you live with them?

Add a deep substrate of diet, smaple clean water bowl (and show him/her) where it is...and provide food/meals 2-3 times/week at least, with a ambient air temp of 95 at one end, 85 atr cooler end with hide spots, backing spots...

good luck!
markb
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