PITBULL ban is happening today - Page 3

RFB · 10-15-04, 05:15 PM

Handguns kill a minimal amount of people in Canada. In the States, where handguns are free and plentiful, they are a major factor in homicides and accidental shootings. As a matter of fact, you are much, much more likely to have your handgun injure or kill a family member than protect your home.

As I said before, a well trained Pitbull might be a great dog. However you can't insure that the people that get them will train them properly so the only solution is to ban them. If other species can do as much damage as Pitbulls and are as aggressive lets ban them to. Wouldn't bother me in the least.

mykee · 10-15-04, 05:18 PM

TB, BS? How about I give you some hard facts! In 2002, there were 214,569 registered Retrievers (Labs, Golden's and Chesapeake's) In that same year, there were 2,842 registered terriers (Amer. Staff. & Bull terrier)
That means that less than ONE HUNDREDTH OF A PERCENT of all dog owners (0.0132% to be exact) of the American dog owning population own a pittbull, (and 1 Pittbull owner for every 100 Retreiver owners) Why so many Pittbull attacks?
Another fact: Center for Disease Control released a study titled, "Breeds most likely to bite" First dog mentioned on the list? PITT BULLS. Of the eight dogs mentioned, Retreivers of ANY kind were absent.
More facts: Same study, stated that that 58% of dog bites occur in the home. When was the last time you heard about a pittbull attacking it's owner? Not very often, and what about that attack happening in his/her own home? Even less often. With all these facts, it only goes to show that pittbulls are attacking INNOCENT people, who are not their owners outside of their own home. To be honest, I would sooner have my babies hand ACCIDENTALLY bit trying to grab one of my Labs toys in my own home, than have him/her PURPOSELY eaten by a pittbull ouside of my home.

Jayson · 10-15-04, 05:25 PM

mykee
I highly doubt that the majority of pits are registered.

mykee · 10-15-04, 05:27 PM

I highly doubt that the majority of Retreivers are registered. Even if you are right, I don't think it'll be argued that the ratio of 100:1 is relatively dead-on.

mykee · 10-15-04, 06:03 PM

Furthermore, the Canadian Safety Council states: "Golden and Labrador Retreivers have a reputation for being friendly and good-natured. The high number of bites is because they are very common. The Dutch survey found that for Rottweilers and Bull Terriers, the chances of biting are SIX to SEVEN times higher respectively than for other pedigree breeds." Dutch Survey cited, as no conclusive Canadian survey exists.

gonesnakee · 10-15-04, 06:20 PM

mykee I like how you put yourself & the way you care for your dogs up above everyone else. You don't really think that OTHER people MAYBE even those that own PITBULLS train & treat their animals the same? LMAO Oh & the whole handgun thing LOL guess what folks they ARE NOT banned. They are RESTRICTED & LICENSED big difference from BANNED. Futhermore Canada has one of the highest # of guns per capita of any country in the world, much higher than say the US, so we actually have more weapons per person than they do down south. Therefore more guns does not equal more gun related deaths (we aren't sure why exactly LOL). Futhermore whether people realize it or not many gangs etc. have taken to keeping/breeding pitbulls & use them not only for dog fighting but to guard crack & grow houses & also to assault other individuals intentionally. They can walk right by the cops with 2 or 3 of them on a leash & as long as they are leashed & licensed no worries. Can't pack a handgun & shoot someone because that can land them in jail. They sure don't hesitate to sic their dogs on you though. Why? because they are disposable to them for one & also they can't be held responsible criminally because it is so hard to prove. Sad but true some scum are using them as an alternative to shooting or stabbing others. Send the dogs in first they are expendable. Heck its been happening since the beginning of time people. In the beginning all dogs were used for work or war & protection. So ya get rid of all the Pitbulls OK now the scum breeding them for fighting & assaulting go to the next breed, maybe Dobbies or Rotties, heck maybe even Shepards or Mastiffs. Do you think by banning Pitbulls you have accomplished anything? NO People are still going to keep & breed them whether their purpose is for pets or otherwise & those who choose otherwise will find something new, its a given. What about all the crossbreeds? What do they do there? How do they prove it doesn't have (or has) Pitbull in it? The meanest dog I ever tangled with was a Pitbull/Rotti/Mastiff cross bred that way intentionally & trained to be mean from day one. A lethal injection cured that problem, too bad it was the dog & not the owner! I personally think that crosses are more unstable than any purebred pit. I definitely agree something has to be done to regulate all breeds of large dogs, but an all out ban on anything is WRONG WRONG WRONG They should consider banning people from breeding without some kind of guidelines etc. before they worry about the animals they own. Ah to live in a perfect world, not ever going to happen folks no matter what ya ban, maybe we should try to ban the internet as it is used criminally everyday also, but that would be silly now wouldn't it. No more silly than banning a breed of dog. Just a few thoughts... Mark

Invictus · 10-15-04, 06:24 PM

Ok, I'm going to jump in here, but I'll try to keep my cool.

Mykee's statistics are true and irrefutable. Pit bulls have been bred for thousands of years to be attack dogs, plain and simple. We as pet owners cannot just suddenly undo thousands of years of selective breeding, and it's irresponsible and frankly foolish to think that you can. I'm sick to death of the dog owners being blamed, especially because I've known some of the most responsible, knowledgeable pit bull owners on earth, and they still ended up getting their pit put down after it attacked a neighborhood kid. They are a vicious breed, a ticking time bomb, and anyone who thinks otherwise is sadly fooling themselves. Remember, thousands of years of breeding for agression. Go ahead and try to undo that.

THAT BEING SAID, I think a province-wide ban is just opening the door for more bans, and I, being a FIERCE opponent of reptile bans, would be a huge fricken hypocrite if I said that I supported this ban. I'm absolutely enraged about the ban on burmese pythons in alberta, just because they are giants. I completely support alberta banning retics, afrocks, and all venomous species however, so maybe I'm not a hypocrite by saying that if the species is genuinely dangerous (as I believe pits and rotties are), maybe it should be banned.

I was attacked by a rottweiler once. The owner was walking it down the street as I suspect he did regularly. Well, for some reason, this day, the rottie decided to be vicious, and the owner was powerless to stop it. Luckily, I reacted to the dog jumping at me, snarling and barking the whole way, and damn near caved in the little b*stard's chest. I regret nothing. It attacked me for NO REASON. Was the owner irresponsible? Who knows. But the bottom line is, he was powerless. The dog overpowered him and he lost the leash.

I didn't support a ban on rottweilers then, and I'm not sure I support a ban on pits now. But by the same token, I'm not necessarily against it. (Gotta love fence walkers!) The stats Mykee spelled out here speak for themselves - pits are WAY more likely to attack than ANY other dog. Regulation has failed. Maybe a ban is the solution.

crucified · 10-15-04, 07:08 PM

i think if you ban one breed you ban them all..
hell ban all reptiles...
actually just ban pets in general..
enough said..
it will end up that way anyways..
i think there should be a ban on those "toy" dogs.. they ALWAYS bite people.. regardless how well behaved they are..

MouseKilla · 10-15-04, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Invictus
I'm sick to death of the dog owners being blamed, especially because I've known some of the most responsible, knowledgeable pit bull owners on earth, and they still ended up getting their pit put down after it attacked a neighborhood kid.

LOL! How can they be responsible and knowledgable and not take the necessary steps to prevent THEIR OWN DOG from attacking someone? Muzzle it, keep it in your own yard or lock it in your basement if you have to, if you choose to own it everything it does is YOUR responsibility!

Quote:

Originally posted by Invictus
They are a vicious breed, a ticking time bomb, and anyone who thinks otherwise is sadly fooling themselves. Remember, thousands of years of breeding for agression. Go ahead and try to undo that...

Which is why the owners have no excuse for not protecting the public from their dog, it's their dog and they should know what it is capable of and how to prevent others from being harmed by it. I see it the same way for boas, burms, retics and hots, if you have them it's up to you to protect everyone else from being endangered by them.

Quote:

Originally posted by Invictus

It attacked me for NO REASON. Was the owner irresponsible? Who knows. But the bottom line is, he was powerless. The dog overpowered him and he lost the leash.

So yeah, the owner was most definitely irresponsible in allowing HIS dog to get away from him resulting in the attack on you. If he can't control the dog then he shouldn't have it around anyone else.

Banning any animal is stupid but holding owners responsible, criminally, for the actions of their animals is only logical. A violent act committed by your dog is a violent act committed by you, simple as that. Banning and killing dogs won't work, charging stupid dog owners with assault when their dog hurts someone will.

BoAddict · 10-15-04, 07:55 PM

mykee what makes you so much better than the rest

outta all the reported pit bull attacks how many are followed up by photo's of the dogs? id say that more than half of those attacks are not even pits. john q public is so ignorant its so simple to just lable something as vicious.

as it has been stated there are much more vicious dogs out there that need to be banned if this is the case.

next to be banned will be rotties , dobs , and sheppards.

Shad0w · 10-15-04, 08:09 PM

Okay... My turn to chime in... ill try to stay calm

I talk from PERSONAL experience...

A neighbour of ours ... a GOOD responsible family man, had a pitbull / lab mix... This guy was responsible.. took the dog to obedience school from day one...

Everything seemed fine.. the dog was friendly to me... even walked it many times...

One day.. the dog charged out of the front door as their daughter was opening it, literally pushed her out of the way and ran past her... guess what??? The damn thing charged right at an innocent person walking down the street... ME...

It attacked me, grabbed onto my arm and would not let go, this attack was completely unprovoked...

I ended up getting the dog off me by kicking it many times.. but not before it did some SERIOUS damage to my arms and hands...

I was put in hospital because of the attack... my arms were so badly bruised and chewed up... I spent 2 months on painkillers and my arms wrapped in bandages....

Wanna know something? This dog could not be stopped when it snapped... its owner was trying...

Later in the week, after the attack, I went with the neighbour to a place that specialized in assessing aggressive dogs... his conclusion.. this dog had one bad attitude under the right circumstances and in his opinion would always be a danger... This after the dog did the whole obedience school....
Later that day, the dog was destroyed.

SO... GET OFF IT LADIES AND GENTS...

Dont say there are no bad dogs.. only bad owners...
DOGS can be bad.... THEY CAN ATTACK on their own accord...
Case in point... My own experience...

Even when their owners have the best intentions...
They are a living being that is capable of making choices...

Sure all dogs can attack, but if that dog has the power to do serious damage... well.. you know the outcome...

What if instead of me... that dog decided to take on a 7 year old kid??? Jesus... Get with it... peoples rights to safety come first... No neighbourhood should have animals like that...

Also note.. the ban is going to cover ANY large agressive dog breed... check it out for yourself...

They are talking about the ability for them to ban dogs that snarle and snap at people that walk up to your door...
And GOOD ON EM FOR FINALLY DOING SOMETHING RIGHT!

MouseKilla · 10-15-04, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shad0w
One day.. the dog charged out of the front door as their daughter was opening it, literally pushed her out of the way and ran past her... guess what??? The damn thing charged right at an innocent person walking down the street... ME...

Wanna know something? This dog could not be stopped when it snapped... its owner was trying...

Dont say there are no bad dogs.. only bad owners...
DOGS can be bad.... THEY CAN ATTACK on their own accord...

Even when their owners have the best intentions...
They are a living being that is capable of making choices...

Good intentions aren't good enough, owners have to take steps to prevent the animal from doing this sort of thing. In this case the owner failed to contain the dog and is therefore completely at fault for his dog biting you no matter what. After they put the dog down they should have charged the owner criminally, as far as I'm concerned it's as good as assault or criminal negligence.

On top of that you would be in a position to sue the owner in civil court for damages arising from an incident in which he was negligent.

Tim and Julie B · 10-15-04, 08:23 PM

AGGRESSISION IS NOT A GENETIC TRAIT WHICH CAN BE BRED INTO ANY LIVING THING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All dogs must be taught to be mean. This holds true for ALL breeds. So if you agree that "pit bull terriers" should be banned then ALL breeds should be banned. I too researched the heck out of this all, and while Mykee makes some interesting points, they are incomplete-most of the studies you refer to are based on very small tallies. Yes, I read every page that you've gotten your information from

In order for any of this crap to be valid, ALL of Canada would have to become a test subject. ALL dogs would have to be registered and tatooed, and ALL bites and other attacks would have to be reported. C'mon people, how often do people report bites from thier own dogs or cute little yappy fuzz balls???? Think this through just a couple more steps. If we agree to allow the government to ban specific breeds, then all large dogs are at risk. After that they will move on to out reptiles and so on. The buck DOES NOT stop here.

Also, for those of you who think the breed specific ban is okay, but have never owned a STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER then what right do you have to make any decision on this? Yes, I know, freedom of speech (I am exercising mine, don't forget), but honestly, you're shooting in the dark at a target you know nothing about.

Blame owners, YES. Blame bad dogs, YES. But for the love of God why punish an entire breed. It's racism, plain and simple. Any who support it are racist in my eyes and not worth the time of day to me.

Julie

Invictus · 10-15-04, 08:33 PM

Julie, you're dead wrong if you think agression cannot be bred for. There have been TONS of studies with ALL facets of animals that show you can in fact breed for temperament. How do you explain how domesticated certain reptiles have become? Do you think it has always been that way? HELL NO. The first WC burms in the hobby were absolute terrors. Now they are the most docile creatures on earth. You think a WC boa tolerates handling? I think not. Down in the states, people are even proving with African Rock pythons that if you hold back the calmer ones and keep breeding that way, all of the babies end up calm. Same has been done with blood pythons, Macklotts pythons, and even white lipped pythons, natures own shredding machines. Now imagine instead of breeding 3 or 4 generations of calm pythons (which is all it takes in reptiles, but they are a MUCH more primitive species), you breed 100 generations of the most vicious, temperamental, savage beasts you can get your hands on. THAT is what pit bulls are now. A few generations of selective breeding to try and undo thousands of years of selective breeding. It would be the same with reptiles 1000 years from now.... good luck even TRYING to breed the calmness out of a long line of calm reptiles. It could take hundreds of years to undo what countless generations before you did.

Tim and Julie B · 10-15-04, 08:35 PM

ANY dog can attack. Put the dog down, not the ENTIRE breed. Sometimes, I think people are just being selfish and biased, and that's what this comes down to. A bunch of people whining about something they dislike, without any enducation about it at all. Don't get me wrong, I can understand why so many are hesitant to think this through, since most people don't care for big dogs. Fear drives humans too, but we should at least use our heads to come up with a solution to the real problem. Not jump the gun and make childish regulations.

Julie