Who would pay this? - Page 3

hhw · 09-12-04, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim_Cranwill
- That snake is a double homo, and that's not a play-ground insult. It not only carries two genes but it carries two VALUABLE genes. One is co-dominant and the other is dominant.

I'm pretty sure it's just a double het, as it's a bumble bee as opposed to a killer bee, and the homozygous form of spiders has yet to be proven.

Derrick · 09-12-04, 03:36 AM

hhw nerd advertises spider as dominant. So what you are getting is a dominant x co-dominant or double co-dominant snake breeding this snake to a normal would give you spiders and spider pastels no normals. even if spider is only a co-dominant trait(as i've seen said on sites besides nerd) you would still get normals/spiders/pastels/ and spiderpastels from breeding this snake to a normal.

IF it was just a double het neither trait would be displayed

hhw · 09-12-04, 03:57 AM

A dominant gene is simply one where hets and homos are the same phenotype. There is no such thing as a gene where both alleles from a single parent are passed on to the offspring, thus a het could never be guaranteed to pass on the morph gene. Offspring of a het dominant morph x normal pairing still result in half normals and half morphs. A bumblebee x normal pairing would give you 1/4 normals, 1/4 pastels, 1/4 spiders, and 1/4 bumblebees.

This would be a lot different than a double homo spider pastel, which would be a killer bee where both alleles for the spider gene were spider. In this case, a pairing with a normal would be all bumblebees. But like I said, since as of yet there is no proven super form of the spider, you couldn't prove a snake to be homozygous spider unless you've bred it and all the offspring are spiders, which would be impossible for a 90g female.

Jeff_Favelle · 09-12-04, 04:10 AM

hhw is right. Bumblebees are double hets. They are het for spider and they are het for super pastel. Although a Bumblebee can be a homozygous spider.

And like mousekilla said, the price reflects the market. If there was no market for the Bumblebee at that price, then it wouldn't stay at that price. There is a market, so there it stays. I know a TON of people who think the Bumblebees are the best-looking morph out there. Its one of my top 3 for sure.

Derrick · 09-12-04, 04:24 AM

Ok cool i get what your saying and i'm no genetics whiz but Wouldnt double co-dominant or dominant/co-dominant more corectly describe this animal. Where Co-dominant describes an animal that is heterozygous for a dominant gene. When someone say a snake double heterozygous it is comonly considered that they are talking recessive traits.

Any way I do understand what you originally meant. I'm probably just spliting hairs.

Edit: I think I've got it figured. Domiant, co-dominant and recessive describe the gene and homo and het describe the state(whether 1 or 2 alleles present), Right? lol its been years since I've done any of this crap. and its also 4am here

Tim_Cranwill · 09-12-04, 10:14 AM

They are still double homos; homozygous for pastel and homozygous for spider. I do see how they might be thought of as only het for super pastel though but I don't agree that they AREN'T homo for pastel.

And how can they even be double hets if there is no super spider? There is NO het spider.

Jeff_Favelle · 09-12-04, 10:35 AM

Tim, a homo Pastel is a SUPER PASTEL. Bumblebees are NOT Super Pastels. Those would be Killer Bees.

And there is het spider. But being just dominant, its indistinguishable from a homo spider. Homozygous means that both alleles are the SAME. Forget the phenotype man. Homo and hetero is NOT describing the phenotype.

Tim_Cranwill · 09-12-04, 10:44 AM

I understand all that. It's just symantics, in my mind. The snake carries two visible mutations, that's why I would call it a double homo... even if that goes against the actual scientific terms (not that snake people follow those anyway).

Jeff_Favelle · 09-12-04, 10:58 AM

Yes, it carries two visible dominant "mutations". But those are completely different alleles, so they can't be termed homozygous. You try and sell a Bumblebee as a double homo animal, and everyone will think that be breeding it to a normal will produce 100% Bumblebees, every time. Because that's what a double homo animal would do.

Tim_Cranwill · 09-12-04, 11:03 AM

So a snow bred to a normal would give you _______?????

Jeff_Favelle · 09-12-04, 11:29 AM

100% double hets, every time. Just like Bumblebees are DOUBLE VISIBLE HETS. Simple. So a Killer-bee - homo spider x normal would give you Bumblebees when bred bred to a normal, every time.

Tim_Cranwill · 09-12-04, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
100% double hets, every time.

Yes, but that's not what you said earlier:

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
You try and sell a Bumblebee as a double homo animal, and everyone will think that be breeding it to a normal will produce 100% Bumblebees, every time. Because that's what a double homo animal would do.

I also thinki you are wrong with your last breeding outcome:

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
So a Killer-bee - homo spider x normal would give you Bumblebees when bred bred to a normal, every time.

A killer bee is a Super Pastel + Spider. If you bred that to a normal you would get 100% Pastels and 50% Spiders. So 50% Bumblebees and 50% Pastels.

Sorry, Jeff. I'm not trying to be a dink. I'm just in a pissy mood.

3 kids and no sleep does that to me!

I know you are right about the double homo thing, but in "snake genetics", the way breeders use the terms at least, I think I am also right... to a degree.

Jeff_Favelle · 09-12-04, 11:47 AM

I SAID "Killer-bee homo spider! That means its homo spider plus super pastel. THAT means that it can ONLY give a spider allele and a pastel allele as its contribution to the chromosome. THAT means that EVERY baby will be a Bumblebee. Killer-bee/homo spider x normal will ALWAYS give you Bumblebees. 100% of the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tim_Cranwill · 09-12-04, 12:02 PM

Is there such a thing as a "homo spider" though?

Jeff_Favelle · 09-12-04, 12:05 PM

Yeah. NERD sells possible homo-spiders. Kwok was hoping he had one when he bought his. There's 2 alleles for every gene, so of course there can be homo spiders. They are just indistinguishable from regular spiders because they are dominant. Just like people with brown eyes can be het brown eyes or homozygous brown eyes. But they look the SAME.

Elementary stuff my dear Crannie. Elementary.