Opening A Can O Worms

[Jeff_Favelle]

Great post Mark! Totally. If breeders don't adapt, they get left in the dust.


On a crappy note, its gonna suck having to sell Womas for $500 each when we finally get to breed them eh? ha ha,!!

Except yours will probably go before mine so I'll get like $400 each. Dammit. LOL!!

[anaconda]

Seems like the only way to sell reptiles on this site is to under price them! In my experience I have found that nobody is willing to pay what they are really worth. It is a very sad situation that everybody is interested in your animals but they say they are "just out of their price range". That's been my experience, I hope it is not a trend for the reptile industry in Canada. Burmese pythons should surely be worth more than $50 as an example. Otherwise why even bother breeding them!

[mykee]

Anaconda, you breed them because you love them. You have to. If you breed solely for the $, you're gone quick because for the most part, the money ain't that great unless you're a Mandic, a Woods, a Marshall, etc. (again), and even then, I'm guessing 50%+ of their profit goes right back into the animals. If it was about the $, you'd see the same animals for sale year after year after year. That's not the case; new morphs, cutting edge stuff every successive year. It's pretty obvious to me at least who here breeds for the love of it and who breeds for the $$. For example, just by his responses, you can tell Favelle has a passion for what he does. There are plenty others here who love what they do. It's not always about the money. Here's an example; I bought a male albino a couple of years back for $5500. Overpriced at the time, but from the stock and breeder I got it from, I was happy to pay that price. Quite honestly, I don't think he will ever be worth anyhwere near that again, and his albino offspring will be worth 1/2 of what I payed for him. Not gonna stop me from buying the morphs I want. I don't sit up at night crying about it. I realize that demand every year goes up, as does supply. Hell, in 10 years the pastels that everyone is breeding will be worth $500. I see that as a good thing. For every five people that are willing to pay $2500 for a female pastel, there are 50 people willing to pay $2000 and so on until the 'market' that you are selling to has multiplied exponentially to the point where a 'recreational hobbyist' will have one.

[Derrick]

wooohooo when are those 400$ womas comin out Jeff?

[Jeff_Favelle]

Ha ha hopefully not until 2010 Derribk ol' boy!

I whole-heartedly agree Mykee. If you don't love working with them, breeding snakes (ie cleaning up snake poop) will quickly become the worst job you've ever had. Go to school and get a good job if its solely the money you're after. If you love animals, and you want to be your own boss, and you like life to be a little slower-paced and more fulfilling, then maybe breeding snakes is an avenue you could explore. But every guy that gets in and STAYS in the hobby/biz, there's 30 guys who are out within a year.

Well said Mykee!

[Tim and Julie B]

Okay, I'm kind of late in the game here but I'd like to say my bit

First of all, I believe in the general concept of "If I bred it, I will sell it for whatever I like". Why? Well, because I bred it and I will sell it for whatever I like. Why? Because I said so. This does not however apply to vending at a show. Why you ask? Because to become "someone" in this hobby depends solely on reputation. This means producing as many or as little animals as you like, but to produce the VERY BEST specimens possible. It means being mindful of market value and respecting those whose footsteps we choose to follow. So why on earth step on respectable toes just to sell out first at a show? I mean, you may as well shoot yourself in the foot first then get involved in breeding.

On another note. Someone here mentioned producing mass numbers of reptiles as a means to buy the more expensive things that they want to breed. Now, that is where the market crash comes from in the first place. Everyone jumps on board the "cheap sh*t" hoping to make some quick cash, but you really aren't helping yourself or anyone else in the long run. Why not save your pennies and buy what you really want in the first place? Yes, I know, easier said than done, but it's better for the hobby itself not to flood the market every year with the same crap that my 12 year old neighbor could produce with his eyes closed and hands tied behind his back. And remember, I never said don't breed the easy stuff, just don't flood the market. Heck, I breed leos for the right reasons, I absolutely love 'em and have several that are just pets (including my very first pair) and I focus on keeping my babies in top notch health with no worries of inbreeding (though that is another lengthy conversation in itself). It is important to keep and breed what you love. But as I stated above, if you can visually say your animals are better than others available, and if you are 100% certain you can back it up, then fly at it! Load up the market with your quality animals. I am being serious here, just so ya'll know.

As for sending people emails/pms declaring them in the wrong for selling THEIR animals for what they like (extra emphasis on "THEIR"), I say this-"Get off your high horse and bug your neighbors for their messy yards and loud kids instead". Ya, ya I know, I probably offended the "wrong" person and would otherwise think them "respectable" and such and have now stuck my foot in my mouth, but honestly how much respect does that kind of action warrant? I am tired of everyone having to kiss @$$ and corform just to make some members warm, tignly and satisfied. My point? It's one thing to kindly ask someone why they are selling something so cheap, but quite another to harass them. By today's standards email/pms are the same as a phone. No one has the right to call you at home to berate you, heck you could end up charged for that now a days, so why do the same through a computer?

Anyways, buy what you like, sell what you like at your own price, but remember, it's all at your own risk the same as everything else we do from day to day. Oh, and don't complain if you can't move 1000+ baby whatevers, cause you did it to yourself. Right? Know the market before it ends up owning you! My nickle in the bag................feels good to vent (This is not something I do often, so be gentle)

JULIE B

[Simon]

Jeff, Mark, Mykee,
Great posts~!

Totally agreed~!
I am like you Jeff. If I want quality animals, I would rather pay the higher price and customer service that they give out. Big breeders don't just get their name from no where. They have to build up their reputation with the quality of their animals and the service that they provide. Kind of like people buying "Brand Names" where we sell our own names as "Brands"

PS Jeff, When your womas sell for $400 let me know....LOL I love those so much. Their looks are just amazing~!! I would definitely look for you when I come back to Canada a couple years later when my factory is running smoothly and I am ready to retire~~

Mark,
Yup agreed~ We all have to adjust. Just how different people see it. Some people will see it as undercutting and some will see it as adjusting. Depends on who you talk to~ LOL....

Mykee,

Couldn't agree more~! Without the love of the animals and reinvesting to 'higher end morphs' or new bloodline or new animals...there is no way that we'll be able to keep on running 'the business' (that is if we really get any profit....) so producing and selling the animals is just really basically substaining the hobby and love ~~

[mykee]

Julie, awesome post. I don't use awesome often. I agree with you 100%. It's all about reputation, and quality. Those two things will make you, or break you.

[Tim and Julie B]

Thank you

Julie

[Jeff_Favelle]

Kind of like people buying "Brand Names" where we sell our own names as "Brands"

What a perfect analogy man! Branding. I totally agree.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
What a perfect analogy man! Branding. I totally agree.

LOL
So basically
the "Jeff Favelle' and "Simon Fung" Brand~
Man..that kind of sounds lame....lol....but this is really what we're selling....LOL~~

[BoidKeeper]

Well Jeff so far so good! Wait till you seen this years addtitions from Unkie all paid for by this years sales.
Cheers,
Trevor
PS
We need to talk about some adult female balls for some JCP soon. After this pastel season it will be time to move out of balls.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Ooooo more snakes???? I AM intrigued brother!!!! Can't go wrong with Roy's stuff. For sure.

No more Balls man? I am impressed. Trading Balls for other snakes gets my respect ANY day! LOL!

I am always here brother, you know that.

[Jeff_Favelle]

LOL Simon, that does sound kind of weird eh? But it applies. Bizarre.

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Haha, Almost all the points here I agree with, and most could be argued agaisnt each other. I am speechless. Why couldn't the market be simpler?! LOL.

C.