best substrate for box turtles

[ReptileHQ]

my point is....it's basically all the same....but include some sand.....and hay provides nothing in the way of micro-climate opportunities(too dry). I would definitely exclude hay from any Terrepene enclosure....much better choices to be used....

My mix....organic potting soil 30%
peat moss 30%
sand 20%
sphagnum moss 20%

I have experimented over the years with substrate and found this mix to be most effective. I have kept box turtles for 20 years and bred them for 15 years.

Chris

[eyespy]

Penn also sees many private patients that are referred by other doctors for outpatient procedures, diagnostic testing, etc. that are not part of the patient census as they are not Penn staff members' patients. The Special Species Clinic is only open Mondays and Wednesdays for their own patients but is available 24/7 for referals from other vets. So officially they see around 800-900 inpatients per year. Many more animals actually come throught the door though.

Penn doctors staff many of the rescue clinics in the Delaware Valley through grants and volunteerism, not as hospital employees. So those animals are not included in the census either as the University does not cover costs. Most of that money comes from the federal government and corporate donations.

That can be very confusing to people who are used to getting info from a vet office, but it's fairly standard hospital accounting. Only those patients for whom the hospital provides veterinary care are counted as "patients". Those who come in for bloodwork, cultures, MRI and CT, etc. from a referring veterinarian don't make the census count. But we techs still see that volume of cases.

[ReptileHQ]

sure...thanks for clearing that up.....

so officially they see 800-900 reptiles per annum...but unofficially they see 36,400 per annum?

your story makes sense to me now.....

Chris

[eyespy]

When a human goes to the doctor and needs labwork, he is often sent to a hospital for tests. He is not a patient of the hospital unless a doctor works on the case. It's not any different in veterinary medicine either.

Only the cases where a doctor either treats the patient or interprets the testing is a patient, results that are sent without interpretation to the referring vet is merely a diagnostic test. See the difference?

[ReptileHQ]

Yes, of course....thanks for clarifying that for me...36,400 cases but 35,600 cases are referals...right...got it now.....

Chris
Lockheed F-117A Stealth fighter pilot

[eyespy]

Your free to think what you like. I'm well used to breeders who launch personal attacks rather than have their methods questioned. It's no skin off my back.

What I will not tolerate is abusive language used to the staff at Penn. Admin is tracing 2 of their recent calls. I sincerely hope that was not you and merely a lurker having some fun.

[ReptileHQ]

I was very polite and merely asked questions when I called. All of my contact information is on my website. I don't hide from anyone, nor do I try to portray myself anywhere as someone I am not. I am myself....always...like it or not, but at least I live an honest existence and never have to remember lies to cover up lies.

I did not launch a personal attack, I tried to justify MY methods through experience. Your methods, I questioned because they do not provide the proper habitat for these animals....then you started talking about how many thousands of reptiles come through your rescue and clinic...and I am highly skeptical of the info you provided with good reason...I don't know of any rescue or clinic that sees that many reptiles, or anywhere even close to that many a year, in the entire world, and I've been in this game for a long time......

Chris

[eyespy]

Calling people a liar isn't a personal attack? Getting nasty to hospital staff when confidential personnel information wasn't disclosed is not a personal attack? Sorry, but I feel quite differently. So does Dr. Rosenthal's assistant.

[ReptileHQ]

1. Never called anyone a liar, even though some info you shared with us would merit such an accusation....

2. Never got nasty with anyone. The person I spoke with was very polite and helpful, and I was polite back. So you either have the wrong person, or you are trying to discredit me and get this thread off-topic......

3. I think I've proved my point, and I am done with this thread.

Chris

[eyespy]

I'm a moderator. If I wanted the thread gone, it would be. Again you make accusations.

[JD@reptiles]

im on Chris's side with this.

[LISA127]

this thread got off topic a long time ago...lol. sorry i brought it up.

the only thing i will say is, according to everything ive read and everyone ive talked to the most important things for boxies are humidity/moister substrate and deep enough that they can burrow. i just wanted to know what others have found that makes providing these things simple and safe.

[gfisher2002]

Ok, look "Calm the hell down"!!! Chris was not directly saying you were lying but merely questioning your numbers. Please don't start fighting on here. You both are wonderful sources of information. Eyespy you obviously know alot about herps, as you've proven in many a post, so don't defend yourself. And Chris, I was thinking the same as you, that many herps is unlike anything I've ever heard of in any clinic or rescue. Like WAY more than the biggest rescues combined. But let's not fight. Please. If you want to continue this please take it to your own mail boxes. Us "less than 10 years experience" guys/gals don't want to watch our favorite sources of info go at it.

Let's just all get along.

Cheers,
Garrett

[yellermelon]

yer jumping to some wrong conclutions about eyespy there, guy. When my beardie got sick with a fungus last year and my vet coudnt' fix it she found me a vet down near here in north carolina that sends stuff up there to their labs. He did a couple biopsies and sent her the slides. Sure enough he had the dreaded yellow fungus disease. eyespy ran a bunch of the labs herself and found it got into his guts and liver.

eyespy's rescue saved my beardie with the help of Penn even though they dind't see nuthing but a couple scales and a frozen bit of liver and blood and stuff. Not every critter she saves walks through her doors. Lots are just samples and stuff. Some of the folks go a long time without ever seeing a living breathing critter. I called Penn to see if my Buddy was listed as a patient. He weren't, cuz he dind't see any of their docs. but i can send ya bills that show he got his labs done there.

she helps lots of people here and for her troubles some idiots are cussin out her friends over the phone and somebody hacked her website. you people should be ashamed.

[LISA127]

wow!