Purpose of Having Venemous Snakes? - Page 3

Zoe · 08-21-03, 03:38 AM

Well Gregg that's like saying that ETBs are as easy to keep as BCIs. ETBs are just as easy if you have the right cage, temps, feeding regimen etc. Or that a dog is more dangerous than a tiger, because if you know how to work with a tiger you won't get attacked.

Quote:

I love when people who do not know a thing about venomous snakes give facts that are more like fiction......

When did I do that? I just said I found it hard to believe that venomous snakes and burms are on the same difficulty level. Is that fiction, or would you say a burm keeper is fully prepared to keep an eyelash viper? Gregg, on occasion I post in the ven forum to ask a question or participate in a debate, you always resort to "i know about hots and you don't so don't even bother posting". I'm not saying you DONT know hots, and that I DO, but there are different ways to discuss than making people like unwanted, inexperienced idiots, and that because you keep hots there is nothing left in the world for you to learn.

Zoe

Bryce Masuk · 08-21-03, 04:01 AM

Either way if your stupid with a burm or a ven you will die burms just happen to be logs 90% the time but if it wants to eat you you need to know how to deal with it

I dont think gregg even said you would manage a burm like you would like any hot becuse you dont.... a burm is big and powerful while hots are small fast so if your qualiflyed to manage one you may not be able to do the other. 90% of the people who own burms shouldnt have them but burms are everwhere like rats and hots not so much or at least in canada.

Large boid's IMO are More dangerous then hots because with hots you have anti venom and there is no magic stuff in a vile to fix you after a retic stops your heart from beating. its also much harder to stop a 200+ pound snake from moving at you while most hots are much smaller then that so it takes more caution but less muscle if you know what your doing you will be fine either way

Comparing handling hots and handling Large boid's is stupid they are completely different tasks one is like driving a race car and the other is a dump truck they are no where near the same thing

The reason people dont want to explain about hots is because you have to watch someone handle a hot in front of you before you have a real grasp of what hots really are and they are beyond words

reptilesalonica · 08-21-03, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Comparing handling hots and handling Large boid's is stupid they are completely different tasks one is like driving a race car and the other is a dump truck they are no where near the same thing

I believe comparing is fair because i own both snakes and i had to care for them.
Since i care for them and feed them, i bring my experience with each one. I agree with you about the giant boids. Exactly, when a giant boid is going to bite you then there's nothing you can do.
And NOT always someone has the time to pass by your house and help you with that giant since you have to feed and care for that giant every three days or so. On the other hand, GreggM is right but didn't express it well. All you that you don't own a venomous snake and don't know it's differencies from the non-venomous snakes, simply you DON'T know...and this is the truth.
To me, venomous snakes are just like corn snakes.
Which is easier to keep and care, giant boids or cornsnakes?...
~Greg~

Gregg M · 08-21-03, 11:30 AM

Zoe, I was not refering to you in that post....

Zoe · 08-21-03, 11:53 AM

Ah... I thought you were, because you started the paragraph with my name.

BurmBaroness · 08-21-03, 05:56 PM

I fail to see any comparison between keeping large boids and hots. Now, I don't keep hots, and don't have the desire to do so, but I do have a fairly large burmese, who I realize could hurt me, but it's not the same. Sure, there is antivenin for MOST venomous snakes, but so they have it at the hospital near you? If it has to be flown in, and you were bitten by something with a very fast acting neurotoxin, would it be fast enough?? I personally wouldn't want to have to find out. I'll take the giants anyday, thanks.

Now, to the ven keepers: I highly respect what you do. I know BW Smith, and he is very comitted to education, and the conservation of these awesome animals. I have seen pics of his hot room, and have friends who have been there. He defines a responsible, mature ven keeper, and it IS his way of life. I don't know you other guys, but most of you seen also to have the right reasons for keeping vens. They are (awesome is the only word I can think of) animals, and It's great that these guys keep them for the right reasons. Hats off, guys!

reptilesalonica · 08-21-03, 08:39 PM

Very well and clear said BurmBaroness!

I love both giants and hots but hots is a deep love!...
The reasons are many.
Hots are far more beautiful than all other non-hot snakes.
Hots has great colors
Hots has large flat heads with corners on their faces and slender necks...i can observe this for many hours because i like very much this characteristic on most venomous snakes

Hots have different tactics on prey hunting...observing them doing that you can only thank God that this magnificent creature lives in your home...
That's why all my life was full of animals...i live in an appartment in a city.
Keeping these magnificent creatures there's a nature's part always with me...
This gives me a reason for living...

~Greg~

lakeridgekennel · 08-21-03, 09:01 PM

i only have one hot and i love her. Don't get me wrong if she had the chance she would take my head off. I still lover her. That hole thing about the proper tools that is so true it's not even funny. i have had my rattle snake for 5 years now and i have never been bit and that's because i have the proper snake hook and i wear gloves you can never be to careful. that's just my two cents

lakeridgekennel · 08-21-03, 09:09 PM

I keep a western diamond rattle snake and my dad a 3 and a baby albino cobra and a king cobra and a red spitting cobra. i hate the cobras they are so mean and never give up

Gregg M · 08-22-03, 09:21 AM

Cobras are not my thing either....... Just not into them like I am my vipers...... Puff adders can be just as slippery as a cobra and alittle more pissy in my opinion....... My big female is alittle on the nippy side....... She would be cute if she did not have venom glands the size of my thumb in her head....... Nothing fun about having a 4 ft puff striking at you when you open the cage....... She is a handful but she is awsome........

Invictus · 08-22-03, 11:17 AM

Ok, I have to call bull$h!t here.

I honestly can't believe what I'm reading in this forum. How can you hot keepers even BEGIN to compare the danger of owning hots to the danger of owning large boids, or even worse, say that the boids are MORE dangerous????? Sure, if a large Afrock decides to constrict you, pray to whatever diety you believe in. But consider the LIKELIHOOD of a boid attack versus the likelihood of a bite from a hot. Boid attacks are VERY rare. In some species like African Rocks, they are more likely than in Boa Constrictors, but are still exceptionally rare. Even with the attacks that do occur, 99.99999% of them are just a bite and release. A boid actually going so far as to constrict and kill a human is extremely rare, and the cases of a boid eating a human are unheard of except for ONE confirmed case.

Secondly, claiming that boids have been proven to pursue humans is a lie. Plain and simple. There is one snake and one snake only on this earth that has been proven to pursue victims, whether that be food or threat, and that is the Black Mamba. BMs have been known to pursue their prey for several kilometers. Boids have NEVER been proven to pursue humans. We are not in their natural diet. They attack when threatened, and that's IT.

If your hots are less dangerous than a large boid, why don't you all free handle them? I can free handle large boids, and do you know why? Because they are FAR less dangerous than hots!

If you free-handle a hot, you are GUARANTEED to get bitten. Thus, hots are more dangerous. PERIOD.

Reptilesalonica, your response pissed me off more than anyone's here. For you to compare hots to cornsnakes is so ignorant it's outright infuriating. I don't need snake hooks to handle my corns. If my corns bite me, I laugh at them. I bet you can't say the same for your hots now, can you? How dare you compare the two. If you've decided you love your hots more than your giants, that's fine. But comparing them to cornsnakes is just plain ignorant.

Attitudes like this are the reason why in many places in Canada, Joe Schmo has been told that his boa constrictor is illegal, while his next door neighbor gets out the snake hooks to clean the cage of his Inland Taipan. This garbage has to stop. Your hots are way more dangerous than the most dangerous boid on earth, and if you don't believe me, go ahead and free handle your venemous. If you're not willing to do this, it must be because they are more dangerous, isn't it?

Sorry if I sounded too harsh here, peeps. I'm not holding any personal grudges here, I just tend to rant very strongly.

reptilesalonica · 08-22-03, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Sorry if I sounded too harsh here,

Yeah, you did!
But i'm not holding any personal grudges either, because...
'

Quote:

All you that you don't own a venomous snake and don't know it's differencies from the non-venomous snakes, simply you DON'T know...and this is the truth.

'
I don't know about Black Mambas. If that is true that pursue humans, someone who is more on Mambas can reply on this.
'

Quote:

I don't need snake hooks to handle my corns. If my corns bite me, I laugh at them. I bet you can't say the same for your hots now, can you?

Quote:

If you free-handle a hot, you are GUARANTEED to get bitten. Thus, hots are more dangerous. PERIOD.

Sorry to disapoint you but my hots are tamer than my albino burm. (And i handle him every 3 days).

If you had a giant snake you would know that you cannot handle it like your corns.
The same is with hots and the hooks.

Giants need more than one person to handle.
Hots need a hook to handle

Knowledge is the key to unlock any fear...
~Greg~

Invictus · 08-22-03, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by reptilesalonica
If you had a giant snake you would know that you cannot handle it like your corns.
The same is with hots and the hooks.

No, I do not happen to have in my possession a giant snake. I do have a baby that will turn into one, but that's not the point here. You're using pathetic means (the good ol' 'yeah well, you don't own one, so you don't know' B.S.) to justify your standpoint that hots are less dangerous than boids.

Added to which, I have been exposed to large boids my whole life, and have been handling them since I was a child. So don't act like I somehow don't know what I'm doing with large snakes. Especially because, And I'm sorry to say this pal, the ONLY difference with handling is their size. That's IT.

Quote:

Giants need more than one person to handle.
Hots need a hook to handle

Wrong. Giants shouldn't be handled by one person. I know MANY people who handle their giant snakes alone, and have never been struck at. I don't know anyone who free handles their hots who hasn't been struck at. Why? Because boids are not as dangerous. They are not as aggressive, and the odds of them attacking are slim to none. Prove me wrong.

Quote:

Knowledge is the key to unlock any fear...

Then how about sharing some knowledge instead of spreading more lies about boids? And as for this quote:

Quote:

All you that you don't own a venomous snake and don't know it's differencies from the non-venomous snakes, simply you DON'T know...and this is the truth.

Ok, we may not all be experienced hot keepers, but we're not morons either. This quote is just another classic example of hot keeper elitism. You somehow think that just because you have a hot, you're SO much more knowledgable than anyone else who observes from the outside. The bottom line is this: I can free handle my giants. You can't free handle your hots. And you're saying this makes your hots less dangerous? Well, I'm sorry. You're wrong. You free handle, you WILL be bitten. I free handle, there is an extremely small chance that I will be bitten. Ergo, your hots are more dangerous than giants.

As I said above, prove me wrong. And please, do better than "You don't own one, so you don't know."

Ask yourself this. Let's say you had to choose between one of the following:

1) Standing next to a huge bomb that has a one in a million chance of going off or:
2) Standing next to a landmine that is GUARANTEED to go off if you breathe on it wrong,

Which would you say is more dangerous?

I understand and strongly admire the courage of hot keepers. But just because your personal confidence with hots is higher does not mean they are less dangerous. You are letting your personal opinion cloud the FACTS, and the FACT is, hots are far more dangerous, and far more likely to cause you injury or death.

Gregg M · 08-22-03, 02:39 PM

Invictus, I cant speak for all, but what I was getting at is........
If the hots are kept by responsible, experianced keeprs, then they are really not as dangerous to keep as some non hot keepers think...... NOT saying that it can be done by anyone that likes reptiles....... Freehandlers do not fall under reponsible keepers in my book and many others....... They are in a league all their own.......

Invictus · 08-22-03, 02:55 PM

I couldn't agree more, Gregg. And I have every confidence in the world that most of the hot keepers on this site have a VERY good idea of what they are doing, and that keeping hots if done responsibly is less dangerous than non-hotkeepers think... but to say that hots are less dangerous than boids is foolishness. It's statements like this that make people go out and get hots because they say "Oh well, person X says they're less dangerous than boids, so it must be ok!" You guys can't afford this kinda publicity when the aforementioned hypothetical person gets tagged and dies.