Jungle Carpet Python: Transitioning From Live To Frozen/Thawed

[Gorgon]

Yeah maybe I should have mentioned this ain't my first rodeo.

I had a Jungle Carpet just like this one a few years ago -- as well as 2 Royals -- and they ate *awesome* in a separate tub. So did I just randomly luck out and that was some sort of unique convergence/synchonicity where all the stars aligned perfectly? I never got bit, they never regurgitated. Nada.

I *have* heard people tell me that if you feed in the enclosure regularly, after a few months or so when you stick your hands in there to grab the snake, it could very well trigger a feeding response and it's a great way to get bit. So is that a total lie someone just made up?

Also, I haven't been randomly jumping to different feeding attempts all over the place. Those methods I listed above have been done over a time period of 6 months, ever since I first had the snake.

And I *have* moved an 8-foot to and from a feeding tub in the past. Quite regularly during that time. I'm a big guy. An 8' snake is nowhere near too much for me to handle.

A 13' Burmese might be pushing it a little but yeah, short of that, no worries.

[craigafrechette]

Yeah, feeding tubs USED TO BE common. But like I said, they've been proven counter productive.

I USED TO run my heating equipment without being regulated by a thermostat. Just because I used to doesn't make it the best way now that I've learned. Of course, that was almost 20 years ago, but my point is we learn as we go and as research and experience teaches us to improve.

The cage aggression is 100% myth. I've NEVER ONCE been struck at inside any of my enclosures. My strikes and bites have always come OUTSIDE the enclosure.

As for the variance in prey items and delivery, I'm sure you're not just randomly bouncing from one to the next.
I'm just suggesting sticking to what the animal was eating prior to you taking it home. That will likely be your best bet to get the snake eating consistently.

[Gorgon]

Ok I appreciate the help you're offering and I'll use it, so thank you. A few questions remain though:

[1] I'll make feeding within the enclosure a priority but how soon should I resume my attempts? If I start 8/10, that will only be 2 weeks since I last tried. If that's too soon, how long should I wait?

[2] Since it's been warmer, she's been doing something she hasn't done before: staying in her hide during the day. She used to be strictly arboreal and made great use of the branches in her large enclosure but now she generally comes out of her hide only at night. Hence, could this by why she hasn't lost a single gram in weight over the last 3 weeks?

[3] I think I'm going to stick to hoppers for now (F/T, obviously). They seem a little small for her but she seems to strike more at them than she does pinkes or rat pups. Does this sound like a good plan?

[4] Could an assist-feed (last resort, of course) help put her on the track of eating F/T?

[5] Again, are there some snakes who simply will not accept F/T and will starve themselves because of this?

Thank you, craigafrechette, and everyone else for your help.

[craigafrechette]

Originally Posted by Gorgon

Ok I appreciate the help you're offering and I'll use it, so thank you. A few questions remain though:

[1] I'll make feeding within the enclosure a priority but how soon should I resume my attempts? If I start 8/10, that will only be 2 weeks since I last tried. If that's too soon, how long should I wait?

[2] Since it's been warmer, she's been doing something she hasn't done before: staying in her hide during the day. She used to be strictly arboreal and made great use of the branches in her large enclosure but now she generally comes out of her hide only at night. Hence, could this by why she hasn't lost a single gram in weight over the last 3 weeks?

[3] I think I'm going to stick to hoppers for now (F/T, obviously). They seem a little small for her but she seems to strike more at them than she does pinkes or rat pups. Does this sound like a good plan?

[4] Could an assist-feed (last resort, of course) help put her on the track of eating F/T?

[5] Again, are there some snakes who simply will not accept F/T and will starve themselves because of this?

Thank you, craigafrechette, and everyone else for your help.

I think you can go ahead and offer on schedule. I think you're safe offering every 7-10 until she gets eating regularly.

She may just be settling in too. Some take longer than others to acclimate.

If hoppers are what she was eating prior I would say stick with that. Once she's eating regularly and oacks on a little weight you'll have more wiggle room to upsize or switch to rats.

An assist feed should be an ABSOLUTE last resort and should never be done on an animal that already knows how to eat. Assist feeding should be reserved for hatchlings and neonates that have yet to eat at all.

I've heard mixed schools of thought on whether or not a snake will only take live prey for it's entire life.
I currently have one snake who is a serious pain in the rear end as far as taking F/T prey. He'll take live any time I offer, but will only take F/T once in a great while.
He's my only snake I've ever had trouble getting to eat F/T.
I also understand that in the UK feeding live is extremely taboo and almost unheard of. So that leads me to believe that the vast majority of snakes will take F/T eventually.

[Gorgon]

Cool -- thank you again, man; much appreciated:

So ok I'll just stick with the weekly attempt until she (hopefully) gets used to the F/T and I'll use hoppers regularly. Yeah just the idea of an assist-feed on her makes me panic since I can't imagine how traumatic that must be. Also, the likelihood of injury during such a feeding must be pretty high.

I do wonder if it could have anything to do with the quality of the prey. I've been buying from a local pet store for these recent feeding attempts but in the past I've used RodentPro.com in almost all my feedings. I just have this suspicion that their mice/rats might be of a superior quality compared to the ones I've been getting.

I just... she's scaring me a little with this because I love her so much.

[craigafrechette]

I have heard of snakes refusing the big box stores brands. I know Petco sells Arctic Mice brand, and they're definitely low quality compared to a product like Rodent Pro.
I have been using Perfect Prey for a while and really like them. Their shipping isn't bad at all if you're on the east coast.

[chairman]

I'm a bit late to the party too. I hatched out a clutch of carpet pythons last year and have been feeding them f/t from birth. I thaw my rats by leaving them in warm water until they are thawed. Then I use a paper towel to dry off just the head, and hold the rats in front of the snakes with tongs.

Most of my snakes won't eat unless the head has been dried off and the rest of the body is wet. I forget which breeder I am copying, but apparently the approach focuses the majority of the scent at the head, giving the snakes a target to work with.

My thawed rats are probably luke warm, not heated up like my ball pythons seem to require.

As for actual technique, some of my snakes happily strike at the rats. Some, I need to hold the rat perfectly still in front of the snake as it presses its head into the rat, the snake itself gradually increasing pressure on the rat until it decides to grab hold. One prefers my leaving the rat on a perch overnight.

I'd recommend trying to thaw using water, drying the head, and attempting to tong feed the snake while it is in its enclosure. If it doesn't want the prey off the tongs, leave it in an elevated spot overnight.

[Gorgon]

Craig -- sorry, I meant to reply earlier but yeah I suspect pet stores aren't getting the best feeders at all. Thank you for recommending Perfect Prey -- I'll check them out. I'm not on the east coast but maybe their shipping is comparable to Rodent Pro. Thank you for all the help you've offered as it really does mean more than I can say.

Chairman -- you're not late at all! I will take all the help I can get. Your post was really well-written, by the way. Nicely detailed too. I can't imagine what a joy it must have been to see a bunch of wittle baby carpets! Anyway, I'm definitely going to try the dried-head approach with the warm-water thaw.

Thinking about this approach, it really does make perfect sense because what the snake is then getting from the head is a stronger scent of the prey. The water -- by definition -- undoubtedly dilutes the potency of the scent, literally watering it down. So thank you for recommending this; I'm surprised this is the first I'm hearing of this method.

Just to add some further clarity, my girl *has* eaten f/t before: 3 pinkies back almost exactly half a year ago when she was just half a year old right after her being in overnight transport from the west coast. She hadn't eaten at that point in almost 2 weeks and was obviously very young and very hungry. Hence, I know she *can* do it. I just need to get her back to the point where she recognizes the f/t scent -- like the live scent she currently recognizes (for they must be strongly different smells to a snake) -- as food.

Thank you again, both of you, for all the help.

[craigafrechette]

Originally Posted by Gorgon

Craig -- sorry, I meant to reply earlier but yeah I suspect pet stores aren't getting the best feeders at all. Thank you for recommending Perfect Prey -- I'll check them out. I'm not on the east coast but maybe their shipping is comparable to Rodent Pro. Thank you for all the help you've offered as it really does mean more than I can say.

No worries at all. I forget to reply sometimes too, hahahahha. I'm happy to help whenever I can.

As for other prey supply options, I've never used the following but have heard good things throughout the snake community.
Aside from Perfect Prey and Rodent Pro...
Big Cheese and Layne Labs are good options, but again, that's based on what I've heard and read from reputable sources, and I have no hands on experience to share.

[Gorgon]

Craig -- definitely, and thanks again man. I'm checking out Perfect Prey and perhaps those other two as well. I'll report back what I find out for sure.

[Maxx28]

Jungle Carpet Python: Transitioning From Live To Frozen/Thawed


Hello Everone!
i am new to this community forum.

[Maxx28]

Jungle Carpet Python: Transitioning From Live To Frozen/Thawed

Hi Everyone, I'm new to community forum.

[ClockwerkBonnet]

Welcome, Maxx!

By the way, you don't have to incorporate the thread title into your posts.