Late Holiday Purchase...

[Roman]

Originally Posted by Scubadiver59

I'll do the spraying this morning after the lights come up. I've been meaning to get a couple of the wash bottles with the long tubes, like Al (Viperkeeper) uses for his snakes. Looks like I'll have to order one or two today.

Do the spraying. As I said, Gonyosoma could probably die of thirst resting besides a water bowl. I have never tried these wash bottles, but if your snake is in I-bite-your-face defensive mode then it might consider anything coming to close as an additional danger. Use a handsprayer, it lets you keep your distance to the snake and provides the water droplets it prefers anyway.

I suppose that the snake is WC, I am not really familiar with prices in the US, but I think I remember some WC snakes offered for something like 250$ to 300$.

So depending on what happens with your deal wait, for the shed, let the snake settle in (for Gonyosoma this is even more important than for your average new snake), spray water on a daily basis (probably twice a day) and try to feed it.

If it is WC, this might pose a problem. Many WC Gonyosomas develop a certain taste in the wild, some specialize in bats, others in birds, so it can be difficult to get them to eat. The only WC Gonyosoma I ever got refused to eat any rodent at all and only ate two day old chicken after a lot of teasing. Needless to say that this was only a short experience, it died on a massive parasite load.

So if your snake eats, get the feces to a laboratory or a vet ASAP and have them checked for worms. If you go to a vet because of the skin problems anyway, let him check the snake for lungworms (nematodes) and tongue worms (Pentastomida).

Originally Posted by Scubadiver59

Anyway, the snake was rather docile at first, climbing up my arm and shoulder, but after I put it in the tub, it went to the corner by the water and then puffed up its neck and started that "lazy", slow, blue tongue flick that to me said, "hands off bud!" Needless to say, I heeded the warning.

Welcome to the world of Gonyosoma

Roman

[Scubadiver59]

Originally Posted by Roman

Do the spraying. As I said, Gonyosoma could probably die of thirst resting besides a water bowl. I have never tried these wash bottles, but if your snake is in I-bite-your-face defensive mode then it might consider anything coming to close as an additional danger. Use a handsprayer, it lets you keep your distance to the snake and provides the water droplets it prefers anyway.

It was still laying on the sphagnum when I sprayed it...it never really moved and didn't do anything close to turning towards me.

Originally Posted by Roman

I suppose that the snake is WC, I am not really familiar with prices in the US, but I think I remember some WC snakes offered for something like 250$ to 300$.

Yes, it is WC and the seller received it in October, so I'm guessing that the damage occurred probably between capture and my receiving it. Never had a WC, so this will be a learning experience. I also paid $250 (shipping included).

Originally Posted by Roman

So depending on what happens with your deal wait, for the shed, let the snake settle in (for Gonyosoma this is even more important than for your average new snake), spray water on a daily basis (probably twice a day) and try to feed it.

I'll give it a few days and then see if it's ready to eat. Everyone is due to eat on Sun & Mon.

Originally Posted by Roman

If it is WC, this might pose a problem. Many WC Gonyosomas develop a certain taste in the wild, some specialize in bats, others in birds, so it can be difficult to get them to eat. The only WC Gonyosoma I ever got refused to eat any rodent at all and only ate two day old chicken after a lot of teasing. Needless to say that this was only a short experience, it died on a massive parasite load.

So if your snake eats, get the feces to a laboratory or a vet ASAP and have them checked for worms. If you go to a vet because of the skin problems anyway, let him check the snake for lungworms (nematodes) and tongue worms (Pentastomida).

Welcome to the world of Gonyosoma

Roman

Ah, I love going to the vet...not; but, I'll follow your suggestions and also schedule a trip to the vet. I just hope it doesn't go bye-bye like yours did.

[TRD]

Hope this will all turn out fine!

a WC gonyosoma may be going to give you a handful though. The person who sold you this should really stop this business practice, it was sold under a lie and very heavily overpriced... I was just offered a WC pair few months back for 120 euro, which were both in better shape than yours, but I don't know US prices..

Goodluck with it though! I hope you don't need much of the luck part

[jjhill001]

Originally Posted by TRD

Hope this will all turn out fine!

a WC gonyosoma may be going to give you a handful though. The person who sold you this should really stop this business practice, it was sold under a lie and very heavily overpriced... I was just offered a WC pair few months back for 120 euro, which were both in better shape than yours, but I don't know US prices..

Goodluck with it though! I hope you don't need much of the luck part

You're closer to where they are from. I think that has a hand in how they arrive. I imagine a WC snake from South America shows up in the US in better shape than it would show up in Europe just due to distance. And would be cheaper for a US person than a Euro as well.

[jjhill001]

I hope you are following proper quarantine measures as well.

[Roman]

Originally Posted by jjhill001

You're closer to where they are from. I think that has a hand in how they arrive. I imagine a WC snake from South America shows up in the US in better shape than it would show up in Europe just due to distance. And would be cheaper for a US person than a Euro as well.

I think the WC snakes we get here in Europe are on average not in a better shape than the snakes you get in the US, it will probably depend on the dealer and how good (or bad) he keeps them before they will enter the flight.

I think the main difference is that here in Europe the demand for WC Gonyosoma is near Nill, because we have a small but steady supply of CB snakes each year. If you look for them you will find them, especially in the late spring early summer in our version of "fauna classifieds" or at the Hamm expo.

I know of one dealer in Paris who currently offers WC Gonyosoma for 125 EURO, but you could get CB 2017 and CB 2016 snakes last summer for ca. 150 or 175 Euro.

[jjhill001]

Originally Posted by Roman

I think the WC snakes we get here in Europe are on average not in a better shape than the snakes you get in the US, it will probably depend on the dealer and how good (or bad) he keeps them before they will enter the flight.

I think the main difference is that here in Europe the demand for WC Gonyosoma is near Nill, because we have a small but steady supply of CB snakes each year. If you look for them you will find them, especially in the late spring early summer in our version of "fauna classifieds" or at the Hamm expo.

I know of one dealer in Paris who currently offers WC Gonyosoma for 125 EURO, but you could get CB 2017 and CB 2016 snakes last summer for ca. 150 or 175 Euro.

Ah, I was just talking in general, not specifically Gonyosoma.

[jjhill001]

Hows the snake doing Scubadiver?

[Scubadiver59]

Well, better than it was before, but still questionable looking at the loose skin on the snake. I know it's in shed, but the looseness around the neck seems to be a little extreme.

That being said, the snake is much more alert than it was the other day:
1. It crapped in the sphagnum bowl so I had to dump that in the trash. I rinsed the bowl out and then sprayed it w/a concentrated Clorox solution before I send it through the dishwasher. I replaced the sphagnum and the snake settled right back on that bowl.
2. I removed the hide I put in the temp terrarium since the snake didn't seem interested and I put in a grape wood branch for the snake to use when it sheds since i didn't think that paper towels would cut it.
3. The bowl of water is still in the cage since I needed something to help keep up the humidity besides the sphagnum. I also spray the enclosure in the morning and night. I don't have a hygrometer in there right now but I'll see if the local cigar shop has one I can purchase.
4. I'm keeping the temperatures up at ~87ºF during the day with a CHE and a 60w blue ZooMed incandescent bulb and dropping the temp to ~80ºF at night using the CHE.
5. Tried to feed again last night when I was feeding all the big snakes and all the snake did was strike at the meal. I left it in the cage overnight but it was still there this morning. The previous owner said it was eating weaned rats or adult mice but all I had was weaned rats. I tried a rat pup the other night but that was before the change in activity levels...it too was refused.
6. Regarding the snake dehydrating despite the water bowl...you are correct in that assumption, as far as I can tell, and the snake has only been drinking if I stream water on its head. This morning, it had its head positioned against one of the coils and I started streaming water in its face...it started drinking the water streaming from its head to the coil. This is the second time since I've had it at home, so that's a good sign I guess. I'll try to do this twice a day, morning and night, and if it moves I know it's had enough...either that, or I'll get bit (I had a strike against my hand the other day, but no teeth involved).

Any more ideas, JJ???

[DJC Reptiles]

Originally Posted by Scubadiver59

I know it's in shed, but the looseness around the neck seems to be a little extreme.

That is probably a result of not only the snake being in shed, but the way the snake was captured in the wild. When capturing, most people use nooses to enclose a loop around the neck of snakes to capture them. I know many people who keep WC animals say the animals have a ring looking mark around the neck. After a while, I'd expect the skin to get looser around this area. I am happy to hear your snakes doing better at the very least.

On an unrelated note, soak spagnum moss for a minimum of two hours to make sure it's not absorbing any of the humidity in the air. This will make sure your snake gets a little more water in its system.

[Roman]

If the snake is drinking that’s a good sign. Keep on streaming the water on it for as long as it is drinking to get it hydrated again.

Don’t worry about the feeding, this is probably the least of your problems for now. If it is not eating now, I would wait for another week before trying again.

Get a "sample set" (sorry, I don’t know if this is the right expression, you know this small plastic tube for a feces sample, probably from a pharmacy) and if it crappes again take a sample for your vet.

A temperature of 87° F is to high overall, under a hot spot it would be OK, but if the whole enclosure gets that hot it is too hot. I keep my snakes at temperatures between 90° F below the hotspot and about 75° F at the cool side (bottom), so the 80° F should be enough for your snake.

When you try to feed it again, move the rat/mouse in front and if possible below your snake (if it rests on a branch or the water bowl), don’t move it above the snake (my guys don’t care where the food is coming from, but a new snake might be more comfortable if it is above the food). If it doesn’t react or reacts defensively try to tease feed it by provoking it to strike the mouse. If this doesn’t work within a few minutes, don’t try any longer and wait another few days or even another week, than try again.

As I said, it can be difficult to get a WC Gonyosoma to eat, adults from Indonesia (Borneo) often specialize in bats as food and it will take some time before they accept "bats without wings"…


Roman

[Scubadiver59]

Originally Posted by Roman

If the snake is drinking that’s a good sign. Keep on streaming the water on it for as long as it is drinking to get it hydrated again.

Aye, aye, captain!

Originally Posted by Roman

Get a "sample set" (sorry, I don’t know if this is the right expression, you know this small plastic tube for a feces sample, probably from a pharmacy) and if it craps again take a sample for your vet.

I understand...some kind of sterilized collection "device". That last "movement" didn't look normal, at least what I see from my other snakes, but that could just be the way it was in the sphagnum.

Originally Posted by Roman

A temperature of 87° F is to high overall, under a hot spot it would be OK, but if the whole enclosure gets that hot it is too hot. I keep my snakes at temperatures between 90° F below the hotspot and about 75° F at the cool side (bottom), so the 80° F should be enough for your snake.

It's not 87ºF overall in the enclosure, but I'm not sure what the cooler side is. I need to cut up some branches to put in this temporary enclosure to make it feel a little more at home and to give it some place to sit off on the cooler side. I'll do that when I get home tonight, after I warm them up in the house for an hour or two.

Originally Posted by Roman

Don’t worry about the feeding, this is probably the least of your problems for now. If it is not eating now, I would wait for another week before trying again.

When you try to feed it again, move the rat/mouse in front and if possible below your snake (if it rests on a branch or the water bowl), don’t move it above the snake (my guys don’t care where the food is coming from, but a new snake might be more comfortable if it is above the food). If it doesn’t react or reacts defensively try to tease feed it by provoking it to strike the mouse. If this doesn’t work within a few minutes, don’t try any longer and wait another few days or even another week, than try again.

If I remember right, I came at it from the same level and from a little lower while it was on the bowl. Once I get the branches in, I'll try it again next weekend...or after the shed, whichever comes first.

Originally Posted by Roman

As I said, it can be difficult to get a WC Gonyosoma to eat, adults from Indonesia (Borneo) often specialize in bats as food and it will take some time before they accept "bats without wings"…


Roman

Well, it's not going anywhere (at least I hope not), and neither am I, so we have lots of time together to iron out our differences.

[Roman]

Originally Posted by Scubadiver59

Aye, aye, captain!

Hey, you should know that we Germans always talk in CAPITAL LETTERS, even when we whisper…

Originally Posted by Scubadiver59

I understand...some kind of sterilized collection "device".

Yes, something like this





Roman

[Scubadiver59]

Update...

Shed has come and gone--never seen a snake shed like that before, the skin literally lift off the snake like a loose sock, and then the snake "tried" to get it all off, but failed miserably.
So, I had to help out a bit to get the remainder off the tail and the lower portion of the head. If a snake has cheeks, there's still a little below the mouth and just behind the head, but nothing that a bit of moving around on the branches I put in the cage shouldn't take off between now and when it sheds again...there's nothing going all the way around to cause a tourniquet and cause issues during the next shed, and I didn't want to stress it out any more than I had to. Like...

Removing the stuck right eye cap was also a bit of fun. Had to restrain the client--go figure--and use a wet wash cloth to stroke it until it flipped mostly free. Then I used my fingernails to grasp it and pull it free.

One good thing was that the shed removed a bit of the "black" damaged areas..they're not as dark or as large as they were before. I think one or two more sheds will clean things up.

I tried feeding again before the shed came off...I offered a weaned rat and all it did was strike; so, I left it behind, draped over a branch but it went untouched until I removed it the next morning. I tried a pup rat once before, after a day or two in the new surroundings, but that was totally ignored.

Defecation has also occurred twice since I receive the snake. Problem was that it's in web sphagnum and I can't get a sample to get to the vet to check for parasites; so, either I get a clean sample the next time or I just take it to the vet for a check up nonetheless. Probably the best option, the latter, but I was trying for a fecal sample as well. Maybe I'll get lucky (?) and get another one before its visit comes around.

Final note is that I got tagged putting in a larger water bath just before the snake shed. Now then, some of you might question that for a snake that's arboreal, but it was soaking part of its body in the smaller bowl I had in the cage at first and I thought it would totally submerge if it had a larger "bowl". I never did see it in there, but it helps keep the humidity up since it's under the light and helps with evaporation. I only got hit with two teeth when I got "nipped" so I consider myself lucky...this time!

[Andy_G]

Hope all turns out well soon, Scuba.