Feeding - Mealies

[SnowSnake]

I've tried to put the meal and super worms in a small dish where the worms cant get out but she doesnt seem to be attracted to the dish to eat. Any tips?

[Youkai]

If your animals don't like them, they just don't like them...
Try leaving the dish overnight or something. She might just need a little bit of time to get used to it. But don't be too dissappointed if she won't go for them. I have some leos that refuse crickets, some that don't like superworms, and some that don't like pinkies. They won't all eat the same things.

[Clownfishie]

Give her time...

This might sound cruel, but try not feeding her for a few days up to a week, and then try again... if she won't, then feed her whatever she will eat, and then give the enforced hunger strike thing another try.

You also might try using feeding tongs to "hand feed" the mealies to her -- sometimes seeing the things wiggling enticingly right in front of their face will do the trick

Some leos take to them right away, others take a little while... and others never seem to take to them. Give her a couple of weeks at least before you decide she's not going to take them though....

As for the dish, try getting a slightly deeper one... should be ok for the mealies, but I find that the supers always seem to manage to get out... they're quick, and they're good climbers....

[Edwin]

Clownfishie knows what she is talking about, I recently got a leopard gecko that was strictly raised on crickets. After starving him for almost a week, he finally relented and started eating the mealies I left out for him. Since then, feeding him is a breeze.

[Samba]

SnowSnake:

First off, I feel it important to comment on your first impression you give us readers. Leopards can do very well without daily feedings, and many won't eat everyday, but it's still important that you offer them food everyday. The impression I got from you was that you were tired/lazy/bored with your leos, but, after reading all your questions I realize you are very interested in learning more about them. You knew when you bought them (assuming they weren't just an impulse) what they eat, and the general expenses, (if you didn't know then let this be a lesson in researching your new interests' requirements before purchasing). Leo owners who truely love and appreciate their pets aren't going to cut corners on their pets' care or gripe about expenses. If you want to give your leos the best that they deserve invest your time and your wallet freely. As for the diet debate: There are many food choices now then there were a few years ago for reptile keepers so take time to explore what your geckos like and don't like, and the best way to offer a well-rounded diet. Feeding only mealworms is probably uninteresting to leos for one and they can also suffer dietary consequences such as MBD. (I've posted a pic in another thread in this forum of an unfortunate Leopard gecko with MBD, which has crippling effects.) Crickets should be the mainstay of the diet (with them taking up an estimated 60% ) with the other 40% consisting of mealworms, waxworms, silkworms, and superworms. Pinkies should not be fed regularly (mine get one apiece about once a month) the only exception being for cycling, gravid and soon-to-be-gravid females (at this time I'd offer a pinkie at least every two weeks or so). The reason for that being pinkies help build up fat reserves and provide extra calcium that facilitates shell production. (If females don't get extra calcium their body will withdrawl calcium from their bones which will increase the likelihood of MBD, and other serious, fatal diseases.) Non-gravid, mature and healthy females will produce eggs regularly regardless if a male is present or not, so it is still important to see that she is well supplimented during these times. Now, about mealworm impactation... Your friend is right that it does occasionally occur, but keep in mind that it occurs because of thoughtless owners. If your leos are healthy and kept warm enough they will be able to digest the chitin without problems. Keep in mind your leos can just as easily impact on crickets and other food sources if improperly cared for. My opinion on superworms, since they are so large, is that they can be fed to any gecko willing to take them on, and is generally around 20+ grams or so in weight. Killing them not only ruins the hunt for the leopard geckos but is also unnescessary and an unpleseant task to say the least! As far as the calcium-phosphorous ratio, offer growing leos calcium at every-other feeding (dusted on their insects, of course), and provide a *shallow* container (such as a butter-bowl lid) filled with Rep-Cal or a similar product. I prefer Rep-Cal because it is phospherous-free (always check the labels). Even if your geckos seem uninterested in it, keep it in there anyways! They may consume it when you're not around! My geckos prefer to 'eat' the calcium out of their lid, and if you still have difficulty making sure they get enough you can mix some calcium suppliment with a little baby-food (organic, mine like fruit flavors such as banana and pears or you can offer chicken flavored baby food-also a big hit). Use in moderation (as an occasional treat) and they should be fine. If you are still in doubt, your herp-vet (you do have one, right?) can give them a calcium injection, but this is extreme and the above methods should suffice. I hope I've been helpful, but if you still have questions or concerns, feel free to e-mail me at: SambasReptileRescue@Hotmail.Com

Good Luck!

[SnowSnake]

--Update--

hi!

My male is taking the meal and super worms very well! But my female refuses to eat them.

I left a bowl with 10 mealies and 1 super in it for the night and today the super worm is gone but I still count 10 mealies. I think that the super worm escaped during the night. I will keep offering her mealies and I think she will get used to them.

I decided to feed more mealies instead of crikets was because she wasnt eating the crickets any more. When I had some mealies on hand I would feed them to her but now she ges close to them, licks them and backs off.

I want to feed my leos every other day or every 3 days because several people told me that it wasnt good for reptiles to be always digesting, so by feeding every 2 or 3 days their system has some time to "relax" before they eat again.

I use Rep-cal as a calcium supplement and reptivite as a vit. supplement.

How many leos do you have Samba? Do you breed them?

cya!
SnowSnake

[Samba]

Well, I'm glad to hear your male is relishing the mealies and supers. It may take the female a while to get adjusted... she's slightly older than the male and more set in her ways (has she ever eaten food other than crickets before?) Sometimes it seems like they don't know it's food. My leos eat from my hands so the tend to take whatever I offer, and if they like it, they'll eat it. On Thanksgiving I found out my male, Darwin, loves turkey! (Girl however spit it out). As far as 'resting' and feeding the Leos every three days: I don't agree that the leos need resting. Many reptiles I believe would eat daily if given the chance. Mine do, and as a result they are extremely tame and very active. I guess it depends on their activity requirements (and since mine run around and dig, and are handled daily they probably need more energy to burn then most). I still recommend OFFERING them food DAILY and VARYING their diet as much as possible. You can't hurt them that way, but feeding them every 3 days can make them lethargic (meaning they'll only want to be active when it's needed, and not so much into enjoying life as a gecko). In the end, you make the decision on what is best for your geckos, so I hope maybe you'll dedicate a little more time and thought into their care. Rep-Cal and Reptivite are both highly desirable suppliments not only for leos, but for most reptiles. I am pleased to see that you are at least making sure they get enough vitamins and minerals. (One word of caution though: make sure the Reptivite does not have phosphorous, as it will disrupt the calcium-phosphorous ratio.)

A little about me: I'm 23 years old and I founded and began running Samba's Reptile Rescue when I was 17. Many of the Leos I have I rescued, and Darwin and Girl are the only completely healthy geckos I would like to breed at this time. The status of leos in the pet trade is becoming similar to that of dogs and cats: too many being produced to find good homes for them all. Last year I rescued two leo brothers (Baby Leo and Spot) who both had Metabolic Bone Disease. The parents were fine and healthy, but the owner of all four geckos neglected the babies after the newness wore off. After helping them fight for almost a year, both Baby Leo and Spot succumbed to the MBD. I won't go into the details of their battles but I will say this: prevention is definately the key. I guess that's why I'm so adament about dietary issues; because I watched them suffer and struggle needlessly. As always if you have any more questions or concerns, feel free to e-mail me (SambasReptileRescue@Hotmail.Com)

Good Luck with your Leos!

[peregrinefalcon]

Samba,
I do not agree with you that leos should be offered food every day(as long as they are not young or gravid). I did try this awhile ago and my leos became obese and inactive and always just sat around. Now I feed mine randomly every 1-4 days and she is very active and always exploring her terrarium. I also feed her pinky mice alot, as I said before I think the fat is over-exagerrated in mice and they are actually very good and nutritious for them. Of course it is good to add a bit of variety too so i give her mealworms and superworms too. I also do not agree with dusting the food with vitamins and minerals every other feeding, this could lead to over supplementation and could be dangerous to the leos health. I dust my leos food a few times a month but I do keep a dish of it in her enclosure as well.
Just offering my opinions,
Adam

[damzookeeper]

ok, I'm finding this post real late. lol, but just wanted to add my 2cents as well. I used to feed my leos a staple of crickets with mealies, supers, and waxies as treats. Now, for over 6 months I have been using a staple of mealies with supers, crickets, and silkies as treats. Haven't tried the pinkies yet (i'm too paraniod but think I'm gonna try. lol) My leos seem to prefer the mealies as a staple and eat anytime they want as the dish is provided full of mealies around the clock everyday. My adults range from 55-75 grams. 1.5-4 years old. They are very active and even though I don't handle them as much as I'd like they are quite friendly and content to be handled. They will also take food right from my fingers, when they don't miss. lol.
I have a friend that has been breeding for umpteen years and he has always used a staple of mealies with other insects and mice on occasion. He is the one that got me to try the mealies. I find my geckos have really fattened up since the mealies and seem to be happier, if that is possible.
I had a couple that didn't like mealies at first but now they are the first ones to the dish when I refill it. Also I don't crush the heads on the supers when I feed them to them, but I do do it when I feed them to my juvie beardies because I have one adult bearded dragons that is afraid of supers after he got bitten on the tongue by one. OUCH!! man did he spit that out fast and ever since it takes him a few tries before he grabbs the super and then he munches it up so fast. It's kind of funny to watch but I feel sorry for the poor boy. So I crush the heads of the supers, not so that they don't eat there way out of the dragon( myth) but so that they don't bite them back. lol My leos don't seem to have a problem they bite head frist. Beardies get so excited they take mouth fulls instead of one at a time and end up with a tail in the mouth first instead of a head enabling the super to turn and bite back. I also do it for my sub adult skink because a friend had his skink get bit by a super worm on the side of the mouth and his mouth was swollen for a couple days. I don't like to take any chances with my babies.
Lol, sorry for the book. Hope you all didn't get board reading this. Just wanted to leave my 2 cents.

[damzookeeper]

Oh, and just to clearify something that I said, "my leos have really fattened up". I got 3 rescues about a year ago that were housed together. 1.2 the male was about 40 grams and the females were 30-33 grams. They are about 4 years old and the females (especially one in particular) looked skinny when I first got them. Now the females are 60-65 grams and the male is 75 (The biggest male I have) They are all healthy, not obese just huge with beautiful tails according to the vet. I'm so happy with them. They may not be the prettiest leos but they are sweet and have never bitten and produce some nice looking aberrant babies.

[Samba]

Adam,

Well that's what this forum is for! It doesn't matter to me whether or not people agree with me; I know what's best for my Leos. If you took the time to read my post, you may have noticed I stated, "I guess it depends on their activity requirements..." I wanted Snowsnake to take this into consideration when deciding how often to feed his/her leopards. I suggested dusting the insects every-other feeding because of the geckos' young ages; (which, we all know the younger the gecko, the more often they should be 'allowed' to eat). Obviously if an animal was appearing obese it's diet/excercise routine should be altered accordingly. I have never had an obese gecko, despite the fact that I feed them once a day. I think if daily feedings made your leopard geckos obese they must not have much of a life (or have eaten way too many pinkies!). Mine are constantly running around inside and out under supervision, of course, and I believe it makes them happier. In the wild they'd be getting near daily excercise to burn off their meals. (And might I suggest if they were left to their own devices they'd probably eat more than once every 4 days?) I try to duplicate their (wild) activity levels as much as possible, and not everyone is going to agree on certain aspects of their husbandry. I think the animals should have more of a life then just sitting around in their cages waiting for their owners to provide stimulation or food. As for the mealworm debate, I really have nothing against it. I breed my own and I use them as enrichment tools for my geckos, but I do not use them as a primary food source. I believe crickets provide a less chitiness diet, as well as provide more excercise and stimulation for my leopards. I go the extra mile for my pets, do you?

[Samba]

Damzookeeper... good work with the rescues! I know from experience how difficult it can be! I think obeseity is a fast-growing epidemic in part because people don't have time to make sure their pets get proper excercise, and diet is a secondary factor. Well keep up the good work!

[SnowSnake]

--Another Update--

I have just fed my leos and took some decsions.

#1: My female just started to accept mealies, she took 13!! but didnt touch the super worm that I offered.

#2: When I feed my leos meal worms I place them in different places in the aquarium so they have to move to get them.

#3: I will feed meal worms every night and once a week 10 crickets, with occasionnal pinkies, wax worms and super worms so they get a balanced diet.

#4: I'm giving my C.V. to different places to get a job a.s.a.p. and buy a bigger terrarium for both my leos.


Thats about it, if you have any comments or suggestions plz tell me and i'll be glade to take in consideration what you tell me!

cya,
SnowSnake

[peregrinefalcon]

Samba,
Of course that is what the forum is for I totally agree, thats how I learned to take care of my geckos, by listening to people's different opinions then forming my own (and of course watching my own leos). And I would like to point out that I didn't start feeding my leos lots of pinkies when I was still feeding them everyday, I started after I noticed them becoming inactive and lazy. While I agree that young leos should be supplemented more then the adults I still don't think it should be every second feeding, more like once a week. I know my leos are not stupid and will go to the vitamin dish when they are lacking something in their diet. I also feed the insects varied nutritious foods, which I believe is very important in keeping leos. What do you gut-load your insects with (or do you at all)? What do you mean by my leos must have not much of a life if they got obese by daily feedings? They have the same life every other leo has: eating, hiding, coming out to be handled, breeding etc. And one more thing, my leos get *way* more food then any wild leo would ever get! Wild leos do not have hands that make sure the superworms don't crawl under rocks, they don't have a completely safe environment where they can come out to eat and they don't have food in the winter!
Adam
ps. Yes, I go the extra mile for my leos.

[peregrinefalcon]

Sounds like your doing a great job SnowSnake! Keep up the good work