Steady temperatures or not?

[EL Ziggy]

Originally Posted by Derek Roddy

Well, with any other snakes such as colubrids, etc.....some live in area's where it does freeze and, they have no heat source in the wild. So, in that case you should do you provide a heat source? Do you not hibernate them if they do so in the wild?

The point I was making is if you keep your animal at a natural temp range of their own temp range. Why would you not offer a night drop if that's what they get in the wild? Why would you keep them at a consistent temp if they don't get that where they come from?

D

Derek- I think I understand what you're saying about the night drop. It's makes sense that temps naturally drop in the evening. I have colubrids and I usually keep their warm side temps at a constant 86-90. How much of a night time temp drop would you suggest? 5-10 degrees maybe? I've thought about trying this before. When it comes to supplying no heat source at all and only using the rooms ambient temps, what about after a feeding should I raise the temps a bit to aid with digestion? My kings seem to prefer warmer temps than my bull. I've heard several pit owners who say they offer no heat source. I just want to make sure my girl doesn't get too cold, especially in the winter. Our summers are pretty warm and I believe they would all be ok. But there wouldn't be much of a temp gradient would there?

[Derek Roddy]

Night time drops.....I always look at the area that said species comes from and go from there.

I house and keep mostly BHPs, Womas and a few Carpets here and there. The temps here in South florida is very similar to where these animals occur in their native ranges. So, I really don't have to do much.

In the winter....my room will get down to 50 but, only a few nights over the season. This year we had several full weeks of 50 degree nights....but, most of the time down here night time temps in the winter are in the low 60s. I give my animals no heat at night during this time.

If they have an opportunity to bask during the day, they can retreat to a hide and keep their ambient temps in check...without a heat source. After all, there is no heat source in the wild other than the sun.

Same for digestion, if they have a basking spot during the day, they'll be fine.

Do any of you guys own a temp gun? Very handy piece of gear. I use it to read temps of wild snakes and their habitats a good deal. I've found over time that no matter what the amb temps are....most snakes are in the 87- 89 degree range. Unless basking....where I've seen a rat snakes skin temp in excess of 115 in exposed full sun.

At night, I've seen wild animals as low as 70 and below....active, out searching for food.


D

[SnakeyJay]

Originally Posted by Derek Roddy

Well, with any other snakes such as colubrids, etc.....some live in area's where it does freeze and, they have no heat source in the wild. So, in that case you should do you provide a heat source? Do you not hibernate them if they do so in the wild?

The point I was making is if you keep your animal at a natural temp range of their own temp range. Why would you not offer a night drop if that's what they get in the wild? Why would you keep them at a consistent temp if they don't get that where they come from?

D

I'm not argueing whether it should be done or not... I'm asking how you'll get around the fact that some use burrows when the temp drops to keep warmish or to hibernate..

There is no heat source in the wild at night but the ground can act as a buffer to these temps in winter, and hold some residual heat below through the night.

It's just a thought that popped into my head, but it seems you've viewed this as an attack on your theory. I'm not trying to pick it apart, just clarifying the specifics.

[Derek Roddy]

Originally Posted by Snakey-Jay

I'm not argueing whether it should be done or not... I'm asking how you'll get around the fact that some use burrows when the temp drops to keep warmish or to hibernate..

I don't feel attacked at all brother.

If you've ever done temp gun readings of things like burrows, etc at night...you will learn that they are actually cooler than above ground.
There is no source inside a burrow, etc to make it warm. Only if something warm enters the burrow will it "gain" heat.

A snake that has been basking can enter a burrow and use his own stored heat to keep warm.
For instance, when one of my BHPs has been basking and returns to his hide box....the temp inside the hide goes up several degree just because the warm snake entered it and, it's a confined space. The box does not retain heat by itself without direct exposure to a heat source...something that a burrow doesn't get.

Originally Posted by Snakey-Jay

There is no heat source in the wild at night but, the ground can act as a buffer to these temps in winter, and hold some residual heat below through the night.

Yes, it can....but, not a 88 degree basking area....see where I'm going here?

Yes, roads, concrete, etc can hold heat but, only for a few hours after the sun goes down and no road, burrow, etc will be in excess of natural ambient temps as they are during the day....nowhere even close.

D

[Derek Roddy]

Originally Posted by Snakey-Jay

I'm not argueing whether it should be done or not... I'm asking how you'll get around the fact that some use burrows when the temp drops to keep warmish or to hibernate..

And, exactly how would that be different than crawling into a hide, in a cage that's had ambient temps of 88 degrees all day and a basking area, if the temps have dropped at night?

It wouldn't right?

D

[SnakeyJay]

Fair enough, there isn't much difference. As I said, it was just a thought.. only way to test it is to try it.

[red ink]

I don't fuss over exact temps in my set ups, rather I provide optimum temperatures within a safe baseline level and let the snakes figure out the rest.

I use basic ambient wall mounted air thermostats in 80% of the enclosures.

I set the ambient air temperature cut off settings based on what the basking temps are under the heat source. This is measured by an IR temp gun. I.E. i set the air temp thermostat in the enclosure to 25C leave it for a few hours and hit the basking spot with the IR temp gun. It would usually say around 33C in my enclosures. I have a digi thermometer on the thermostat to let me know the temps it is reading (roughly).

As an example the digi thermo reads 27C check what the basking temp is... reads 36C. I call that within safe parameters. I wait for the manual click of the thermostat switching off, look at the digi temp: reads 27C. Then I know the heat source does not get hotter than 36C based on the air temps.

The rest is for the snake to work out where it wants to be in relation to distance to heat source. If it feels too hot it moves away... too cold then it spends it's time directly under the heat source. My temps can vary by 10-15C in the enclosure dependant on time of day or season at any given time. The enclosure never gets cold enough for the snake to "freeze" or hot enough to "cook" as the thermostat will shut off the heat source.

Ambient air temps around the enclosure also affect the air temps in the enclosure. Ambient air temps too hot and it affects the air temps in the enclosure above set parameters = no heat source for the day.

I also have a timer connected to the wall thermostat to the power source... depending on the season I will set up a "cut off time" to all power to the enclosure. During summer the enclosures are powered till around midnight then totally off till the morning where the timer "kicks" back in.

In winter if I'm cooling, I set the timer at intermitant intervals and set the air temps to a desired level (usually I would drop the air temps to 18C).

The way I see it as long as I have a sufficient thermal gradient, the snake being ectothermic and being more sensitive to temperature changes will work out the rest... it's what they're built for.

[CosmicOwl]

This thread has got me thinking a bit about heating. The consistent belly heat used by many keepers isn't something wild snakes would encounter. They'd have to bask in the sun or find a heat retaining object that they could lay on to warm up. I wonder if constant belly heat might end up being a case of too much of a good thing.