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07-29-13, 02:16 AM
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#31
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Village Idiot
Join Date: Oct-2011
Age: 39
Posts: 7,360
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Re: Sick cali king...PLZ HELP!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heather7875
thank you both for the info. it is very much appreciated!
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This may sound silly but could you tell me what you learned from this thread?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikoh4792
If your snake did die of overheating, then it's possible that it was slowly killing him over the months until he couldn't take it anymore.
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Over heating actually kills them fairly quickly. It could've also had to do with higher room temps.
__________________
I used to be a nice guy but that don't get you anywhere. So now I'm just a piece of ****, idiot,
who's too stupid to care.
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07-29-13, 02:23 AM
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#32
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Member
Join Date: Jul-2013
Posts: 29
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Re: Sick cali king...PLZ HELP!!!!
my room temp is 72 to 74
__________________
Heather
*Newbie to the snake community. Got hubby a snake 4 months ago because he has always wanted one... and I fell in love.
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07-29-13, 02:27 AM
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#33
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Member
Join Date: May-2013
Posts: 4,858
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Re: Sick cali king...PLZ HELP!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by KORBIN5895
Over heating actually kills them fairly quickly. It could've also had to do with higher room temps.
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Ah I see. I was assuming it had to do with how extreme the temperatures were( a little above the threshold killing slowly, and extremely high temps killing faster)
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07-29-13, 02:28 AM
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#34
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Member
Join Date: May-2013
Posts: 4,858
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Re: Sick cali king...PLZ HELP!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heather7875
I would think i would only need a probe if i was raising snakes. Am I incorrect in saying that?
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I don't understand this post. Were you not raising a snake?
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07-29-13, 02:32 AM
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#35
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Member
Join Date: Mar-2013
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 87
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Re: Sick cali king...PLZ HELP!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikoh4792
I don't understand this post. Were you not raising a snake?
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It took me a minute too. I think she meant a sexing probe.
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07-29-13, 02:38 AM
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#36
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Member
Join Date: Jul-2013
Posts: 29
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Re: Sick cali king...PLZ HELP!!!!
[QUOTE=Mikoh4792;859814]Could you post pictures of your setup?[/QI
I don't know how to post a pic this way...sorry. will try tomorrow.
__________________
Heather
*Newbie to the snake community. Got hubby a snake 4 months ago because he has always wanted one... and I fell in love.
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07-29-13, 02:43 AM
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#37
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Village Idiot
Join Date: Oct-2011
Age: 39
Posts: 7,360
Country:
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Re: Sick cali king...PLZ HELP!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikoh4792
Ah I see. I was assuming it had to do with how extreme the temperatures were( a little above the threshold killing slowly, and extremely high temps killing faster)
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You are correct that a little high for a long period of time will cause a slow death. I was thinking along the lines of a temp spike in the room.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heather7875
ok...so i had a typo. I don't have a thermostat in my terrariums...LOL. that would be freakin funny!!!
i have the two thermometers that tells me the temperature. Come on now.:
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Actually every responsible keeper uses a thermostat in there tank to control the temperatures. I don't think you grasp what you actually nerd to successfully keep a snake. The probe Mikoh is talking about is part of the thermostat not a tool used for sexing a snake.
__________________
I used to be a nice guy but that don't get you anywhere. So now I'm just a piece of ****, idiot,
who's too stupid to care.
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07-29-13, 03:10 AM
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#38
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Banned
Join Date: Apr-2013
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Age: 27
Posts: 1,398
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Re: Sick cali king...PLZ HELP!!!!
Since no one else has said it, I will. I think you should do research for a few months, come here and ask any questions you may have, and then once you feel confident that you know what you're doing, buy another snake. Your snakes death may have been something that was not in your control, like a disease, etc, or something you did do.
Either way, you should kind of look around google, and reptile forums, and articles on caring for the type of snake you want. Snakes aren't like dogs or cats. If you find a dog/cat for sale, you can bring it home, give it some food, and call it good for awhile. Snakes require a lot more care than that, and it takes a lot of research on that particular type of snake to know what it needs. Want a Cal King? Google "How to care for a Cali King Snake" and watch a few care videos, and look through a few articles. That's the best way to do it. I think you got the snake a little early, honestly. Not because it died, but because it does not seem like you've got everything fully under control. I do not mean any disrespect. I am only trying to help.
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07-29-13, 07:42 AM
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#39
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The Original Urban Legend
Join Date: Dec-2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,526
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Re: Sick cali king...PLZ HELP!!!!
Just a thought, but was this snake autopsied? From the rapid decline, along with the regurgitation and neurological signs, it sounds to me like it could be paramyxovirus. This is a 100% fatal, incurable retrovirus that causes snakes to regurgitate, show respiratory distress (in most but not all cases) and exhibit neurological signs similar to IBD. It's very contagious and kills rapidly.
There have been collections in which colubrids were infected with IBD by sick boas/pythons;however, in most of the case studies that I've read, the colubrids didn't actually display symptoms but were merely carriers. However, I do think there have been a few cases where colubrids died in IBD-infested mixed-species collections.
__________________
Dr. Viper
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07-29-13, 07:55 AM
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#40
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Member
Join Date: May-2012
Posts: 533
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Re: Sick cali king...PLZ HELP!!!!
The feedback on the thermostat is indeed correct, and measure the surface temperature with a temp gun. Also, with most native North American snakes I would approach heat as supplemental, meaning that I would err on the side of lower temperatures.
I remember reading a research paper from Wittenberg University on Mexican king snakes and their metabolism at different temperatures. Overall, they metabolize their food rather effectively even close to room temperature. (This also mirrors my own experience.)
What I'm saying is: Increase the temperature gradient in your king snakes' enclosure gradually and see where the snake ends up. If in doubt, opt for the lower temperature.
We don't know for sure what killed your CA king, but they are generally one of the easier types of snakes to keep.
__________________
0.2.3 Corn (2 normal/1 anery/1 anery motley/1 snow) / 0.0.1 KSB / 1.0 Yuma King / 1.0 Durango Mountain King / 0.1 BCI / 1.1 Oregon Garter / 1.0 Everglade Rat Snake / 1.0 Coastal Carpet / 0.1 Bull Snake
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07-29-13, 08:07 AM
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#41
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Member
Join Date: May-2012
Posts: 533
Country:
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Re: Sick cali king...PLZ HELP!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will0W783
Just a thought, but was this snake autopsied? From the rapid decline, along with the regurgitation and neurological signs, it sounds to me like it could be paramyxovirus. This is a 100% fatal, incurable retrovirus that causes snakes to regurgitate, show respiratory distress (in most but not all cases) and exhibit neurological signs similar to IBD. It's very contagious and kills rapidly.
There have been collections in which colubrids were infected with IBD by sick boas/pythons;however, in most of the case studies that I've read, the colubrids didn't actually display symptoms but were merely carriers. However, I do think there have been a few cases where colubrids died in IBD-infested mixed-species collections.
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Interesting, I wasn't aware that colubrids could be more than a vector for IBD. Do you have any idea how common paramyxoviral infections have become?
__________________
0.2.3 Corn (2 normal/1 anery/1 anery motley/1 snow) / 0.0.1 KSB / 1.0 Yuma King / 1.0 Durango Mountain King / 0.1 BCI / 1.1 Oregon Garter / 1.0 Everglade Rat Snake / 1.0 Coastal Carpet / 0.1 Bull Snake
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07-29-13, 11:03 AM
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#42
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Member
Join Date: Aug-2011
Posts: 1,010
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Re: Sick cali king...PLZ HELP!!!!
I know he has me on ignore but that was just to much...
To the OP there is a lot to take in right now, a lot to learn and though things might seem a bit overwhelming and confusing right now if you keep asking questions you'll get the hang of it and the next time you bring a snake home it'll be much easier on both you and the animal.
First I would keep working on getting your set up right, such as figuring out your thermostats and how you plan on heating your tank/tub. Once you get this part fixed everything else will be smooth sailing.
__________________
2.0 Ball Pythons, 2.0 BCIs, 0.1 Crested Gecko
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07-29-13, 11:49 AM
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#43
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The Original Urban Legend
Join Date: Dec-2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 5,526
Country:
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Re: Sick cali king...PLZ HELP!!!!
Guys, seriously, let's keep the personal attacks and vendettas to PMs. This person came to the forum seeking advice, and it's turned into a pi$$ing match between existing members. We used to be better than this- I get tired of seeing all this needless drama, and it's a big part of why I rarely post on here anymore. I am sure I'm not the only one getting sick and tired of having to wade through pages and pages of bickering to find the nuggets of information and questions in a thread. *smh*
As for inclusion body disease and colubrids, they are a known vector of the disease but do not show symptoms in most cases. It's thought that colubrids exposed to IBD-infected boid snakes might harbor the disease and pass it on to future boids they are exposed to, but the exact mechanisms are not well understood. I've read an account of king snakes dying of IBD-like symptoms in a collection where a few Red-tailed boas had been previously diagnosed with IBD and euthanized; however, I can't remember where I found that post (it was years ago when I was trying to research to understand during a potential scare in my collection, which thankfully turned out not to be IBD).
Viperid snakes, especially crotalids, also can become infected and die from IBD; there are several scholarly articles about this on Pubmed.gov
Paramyxovirus is not terribly common, but it is far more common than IBD. I couldn't give you actual statistics, as they are probably unknown, but it does look an awful lot like IBD symptom-wise. The main difference is the rate of onset and deterioration- a snake with IBD will not die from the disease itself, but rather from malnourishment and inability to control its muscles. This process takes months....it's a messy, ugly, sad decline followed by a merciful death. Paramyxo on the other hand will take a reptile down in a week or two at most. The animal will appear healthy, perhaps a sneeze or two, or very mild RI signs, then within a matter of days, it will be mouth-breathing, contorting, unable to move correctly....then paralysis sets in. The final stages are loss of pupillary reflex.
I would honestly think that, judging by the time course and symptoms described, paramyxovirus is a far more likely cause of the OP's king snake's death than overheating or poison exposure. It just fits. However, it's impossible to know without an autopsy.
To the OP, make sure any and all materials and cage furnishings that the snake came in contact with are disinfected thoroughly. A 10-20% bleach solution sprayed on and allowed to sit for 10-15 minutes before thorough rinsing should suffice, but if you can find a quaternary ammonia-based cleaner, this would be even better. I clean with stuff called DC-10 that I get from lab supply companies. It will kill parasites, viruses, bacteria and mold....great stuff and it smells clean and fresh!
As per others' suggestions, taking this time to do some further research on whatever species you intend to keep next is a good idea. You can never be too prepared. When you are ready with a clean enclosure, proper temperature and humidity gauges, and a qualified reptile vet on hand, I'm sure you'll find another snake that will suit you. I'm sorry you had to endure the loss of your first snake- it's a hard hit to take, but unfortunately things do happen when we are working with live animals, and snakes require very specialized care and knowledge in order to thrive...even the most common of species.
__________________
Dr. Viper
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07-29-13, 05:30 PM
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#44
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Member
Join Date: Jul-2013
Posts: 29
Country:
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Re: Sick cali king...PLZ HELP!!!!
ok, wow!
Well, I have learned a lot from this thread...geezz...lol
thanks to all who have helped. I am getting another Cali king after I do more research. Thought I did a lot the first go round. Guess not enough. and from what I was reading my temps were perfect for him.
thanks so much for the cleaning solution you gave Willow.
and trust me. we are not getting another snake anytime soon.
__________________
Heather
*Newbie to the snake community. Got hubby a snake 4 months ago because he has always wanted one... and I fell in love.
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07-29-13, 05:40 PM
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#45
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Member
Join Date: May-2013
Posts: 4,858
Country:
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Re: Sick cali king...PLZ HELP!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heather7875
from what I was reading my temps were perfect for him.
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Your temps were off. You were reading 92F 3 inches above the ground where your snake was. You have to read the temperature on the floor for the hotspot, not the air. Not only that you have to read temps with an accurate thermometer.
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