Snake Identification : Istanbul Turkey

[CrotalusR#1]

Crotalus the Germ is correct the taxonomic grouping goes genus then species. A clade is a group of animals that share an ancestrial species.

Huh, I have always heard people referred to say oreganus as the clade. Glad to know.. Thank you MesoCorney for explaining, that's appreciated.

Of course i'm right. But i dont want argue about this.

What a terribly arrogant and just cocky attitude, let's remember here, you said you knew your crotalus and couldn't name even one of the subspecies!!, I'd prefer not to have any more words between the 2 of us, you are unbelievably frustraitung.... You said on this thread that

You guys need more knowledge about european snakes

, that's just ridiculous, I'm sure I'm not the only one here who thinks that!


Again if your gunna make a bold statement you better be damn positive you can back it up and so far you have NOT been able to do so.

[PatrickT]

Originally Posted by CrotalusR#1

Huh, I have always heard people referred to say oreganus as the clade. Glad to know.. Thank you MesoCorney for explaining, that's appreciated.



What a terribly arrogant and just cocky attitude, let's remember here, you said you knew your crotalus and couldn't name even one of the subspecies!!, I'd prefer not to have any more words between the 2 of us, you are unbelievably frustraitung.... You said on this thread that , that's just ridiculous, I'm sure I'm not the only one here who thinks that!


Again if your gunna make a bold statement you better be damn positive you can back it up and so far you have NOT been able to do so.

To be fair, was i right or not? Was it viridis and oreganus?

[RAD House]

You could use clade with organus if you were talking about it as a group describing all the subspecies. They share a common ancestor. I know crotalus only well enough to know which snakes not to pick up, so I am curious as to what snakes you showed.

[FWK]

Originally Posted by alpha

thanks for the identification everyone !

Anytime alpha, and if you do manage to grab a shot of that shiny black snake or any other critter be sure to share.

Originally Posted by PatrickT

You guys labelled a totally harmless natrix a viper.

Only a couple people suggested it was a viper, Aaron made it very clear it was only a guess based on the shape of its head. Such a suggestion indicates caution would be wise, which is exactly why I stated I was unwilling to rule out a viper myself. CrotalusR#1 was confident it was not a viper, I do not know why you grouped him with "you guys." Albert was wrong but that is no reason to rub it in anyone's face. I would prefer to mistakenly call a non-venomous animal venomous than the other way around for safety reasons.

Originally Posted by PatrickT

Our education system in germany is one of best in the world and i had Leistungskurs Biologie. So bring it.

You do have a point here, the US is lagging far behind the curve in this regard. But perhaps your curriculum should at some point include a course in humility. Ours absolutely should.

Originally Posted by CrotalusR#1

I personally thought the way he responded was immature and arrogant.

You should probably consider you own responses before throwing the first stone.

[CrotalusR#1]

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

You could use clade with organus if you were talking about it as a group describing all the subspecies. They share a common ancestor. I know crotalus only well enough to know which snakes not to pick up, so I am curious as to what snakes you showed.

Ok that's how I understood it, when I say clade I refer to all the subspecies in this case oreganus....

The snakes are...

Crotalus viridis nuntius

Crotalus oreganus abyssus

Crotalus oreganus concolor

Crotalus oreganus concolor/ Crotalus viridis nuntius (natural intergrade)


I put that last snake in there ( intergrade) just incase you happened to know those subspecies well, like a bonus lol....

To be fair, was i right or not? Was it viridis and oreganus?

I don't see how you where rite, naming a clade isn't what you said you could do, you said you new your crotalus so you should be able to name your oreganus subspecies. I can post more if you'd like , I didn't really start of "easy" lol. Oreganus subspecies can be a bitch to distinguish from each other

[Princess-dad]

FWK Well put lots of attitudes flying around . Lets all remember some of the posts made are being made be young men who havent learned better yet , also there is a culture and language barrier. But no matter how hard I try Im finding it hard to find an excuse for the older members comments . I have noticed that that one needs to be very careful what they post or risk a random attack . So more to the point Patrick you are not gonna be left alone if you keep comparing Europeans to North Americans . Especially letting us all know you feel superior . Everybody else that cant say you are young , cocky , to stupid to not argue , when all you are really doing is trying soothe your hurt feelings . Lets try being adults by ignoring the mistakes or rudeness of others instead of turning it into a **** measuring contest .

[RAD House]

Princess how can you try to scold people for being insulting and then call them cocky and stupid in the same post. Seems a bit like the rattlesnake calling the cobra unfriendly.

Crotalus those are some beautiful snakes you have there. We have a ton of prairie rattlers just east of us. I walked up on a den of at least six of them once. They were less than pleased and I was shaking in my boots.

[PatrickT]

Calm down please. It was not my intention to insult anyone here. I think its a cultural problem.

Most germans tend to be very direct. Propably so direct in a way that others feel insulted. That was in no way my intention.

[CrotalusR#1]

You should probably consider you own responses before throwing the first stone

Are you referring to a specific stament? I'm a little confused.

Crotalus those are some beautiful snakes you have there. We have a ton of prairie rattlers just east of us. I walked up on a den of at least six of them once. They were less than pleased and I was shaking in my boots.

Thank you, I would love to walk up on a den of parries!! Did you happen to snap any photos?

[RAD House]

I did not unfortunately. I just got out of there. I was a little too close for comfort. They were in a old Fox den so I didn't see them until I was nearly on top of them and they began to rattle.

[PatrickT]

I know that feeling. I helped my grandma in her garden and i brought old leafs on the compost. When i put it down i heared an angry hissing and there were three Vipera berus...It was cool to see them but i prefered a safe distance

[Roman]

Patrick what’s wrong with you? Until this thread you seemed to be such a nice guy, but most of your statements here where arrogant and rude (and provoked the responses you got).

First of all, you were right, it is a dice snake Natrix tessellata.

Originally Posted by PatrickT

You guys need more knowledge about european snakes.

Why? This is an American (and Canadian) forum, so most users here are naturally interested in reptiles which are either living in this area or are available in the local pet trade. What kind of impact do you think have European snakes in the US pet market? Especially if you are lucky to get your hands on a captive breed European snake with all papers here in Europe. Even in Hamm (for you US guys the quarterly expo in Hamm/Germany claims to be the biggest Reptile expo in the world and it is at least the biggest expo in Europe) you have to be lucky to get more than Natrix natrix or Natrix tessellata, other local expos don’t have any European snakes most of the time.

I was surprised when I saw that CrotalusR#1 actually has a European viper in his collection, a Vipera ammodytes (Long-nosed Viper).

Your boast to be able to identify all these snakes only by a picture without any information of the locality where the picture was taken is optimistic to say the least. There are several rattlesnakes out there which even specialists would be hard pressed to identify only with a picture.

Our education system in germany is one of best in the world and i had Leistungskurs Biologie.

Agreed, our educational system seems to have improved over the last years, but “one of the best in the world” ?? Seriously, even the latest PISA survey didn’t place us under the top 10 (we were 16th over all), so nothing to brag about. And what does having biology as your “Leistungskurs” has anything to do with your skills in identifying snakes? During my time (which is some time ago) there were no snakes mentioned during the two years at all. Even during the academic studies in biology there was only one day of practice identifying some European snakes.

Being direct has nothing to do with arrogance or rudeness, your English is good enough to be able to phrase anything you said without being offensive.

So Patrick, please be nice again. We are some sort of representatives for Germany here, so there is no place for this kind of behavior here, there are enough a…s who still think they are the best of the best – we don’t need this kind of arrogant crap.

Roman