Rats - Page 3

LISA127 · 10-22-10, 11:06 PM

Yes, shelters gas animals to euthanize them because it is more cost effective for the shelter. It is a horrendous and scary way to die for the dogs, though. Just awful.

I know of no veterinarian that gasses animals to death!!!???

Reptile_Reptile · 10-22-10, 11:15 PM

^ me either in fact i know it to be false my aunt is a retired vet and she says it is misinformation

candyraver69 · 10-23-10, 07:13 AM

Guess I'll have to try the fumes on myself for a few seconds to really know for sure if it makes eyes and nose burn. I'll update you on that soon.

I've heard the horror stories about the shelters, but I gotta say I think a lot of the stories we hear are about shelters that do it WRONG to save money and time. The American Veterinary Medical Association was pretty clear in their reports about euthanasia that it's a good choice for an anesthetic:

"Inhalation of CO2 at a concentration of 7.5% increases the pain threshold, and higher concentrations of CO2 have a rapid anesthetic effect."

"Several investigators have suggested that inhalation of high concentrations of CO2 may be distressing to animals, because the gas dissolves in moisture on the nasal mucosa. The resulting product, carbonic acid, may stimulate nociceptors in the nasal mucosa. Some humans exposed to concentrations of around 50% CO2 report that inhaling the gas is unpleasant and that higher concentrations are noxious. A brief study of swine examined the aversive nature of CO2 exposure69 and found that 90% CO2 was aversive to pigs while 30% was not. For rats, exposure to increasing concentrations of CO2 (33% achieved after 1 minute) in their home cage produced no evident stress as measured by behavior and ACTH, glucose, and corticosterone concentrations in serum."

To summarize that- the report it saying if too much CO2 is introduced too fast, yeah it may not feel so great. You have to slowly increase the CO2 level to out the animal to sleep without causing pain and discomfort. Obviously there is a margin of error involved, but there is with cervical dislocation as well (breaking the neck), as if it's done wrong it can hurt the animal badly without killing it. All I know is I would much rather be knocked out with gas than be beat against a hard surface or have a sharp object pry my head off at the neck- I guess to each his own but it's certainly not a "humane" way to die in my opinion.

Anyways, Ema I sincerely apologize for even bringing it up at this point, as I was only trying to present another option and it seems I have turned your thread into an argument about the ethics of different ways of euthanasia rather than "suggestions" like it was originally intended.

I respect everyones opinion even if I don't share it.

infernalis · 10-23-10, 07:35 AM

first.. THANK YOU both for staying civil, very admirable.

One time I recieved my frozen rodent order and for the heck of it I placed the dry ice block in our chest freezer. (the kind with the door on top)

The dry ice was gone by the next day, however the entire freezer had filled completely with c02 gas.

I opened up the freezer and leaned down to get a package of steaks and as soon as my head was down in the c02 "cloud" I immediatly became overwhelmed with this searing sensation in my eyes and lungs, I almost fell over from just one inhalation of straight c02.

It stung, burned and nausiated all at once.

Back to the shelter comment, I hate it all.. I just love my dogs and cats but at the risk of sounding aweful... One quick gunshot to the head (the way us "country folks" do it)
is the most humane way.

If you do it right, the critter will be dead before it ever hears the gunshot. (that's quick)

candyraver69 · 10-23-10, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

first.. THANK YOU both for staying civil, very admirable.

One time I recieved my frozen rodent order and for the heck of it I placed the dry ice block in our chest freezer. (the kind with the door on top)

The dry ice was gone by the next day, however the entire freezer had filled completely with c02 gas.

I opened up the freezer and leaned down to get a package of steaks and as soon as my head was down in the c02 "cloud" I immediatly became overwhelmed with this searing sensation in my eyes and lungs, I almost fell over from just one inhalation of straight c02.

It stung, burned and nausiated all at once.

Back to the shelter comment, I hate it all.. I just love my dogs and cats but at the risk of sounding aweful... One quick gunshot to the head (the way us "country folks" do it)
is the most humane way.

If you do it right, the critter will be dead before it ever hears the gunshot. (that's quick)

I hate it all too. There really is no way to put an animal to death that doesn't deserve to die without at least some guilt or sorrow. If it were an easy thing to stomach we wouldn't all get our feelings worked up and debate about it.

What I try to keep in mind is, all of us here love our critters and have the best intension at heart in the way that we do what we do. There are a lot of people in the world that hurt animals on purpose, so if nothing else we should all love and respect that common ground we have as pet lovers whether it's snake lovers or rat lovers or what.

infernalis · 10-25-10, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyraver69

What I try to keep in mind is, all of us here love our critters and have the best intension at heart in the way that we do what we do. There are a lot of people in the world that hurt animals on purpose, so if nothing else we should all love and respect that common ground we have as pet lovers whether it's snake lovers or rat lovers or what.

Standing ovation......

ema-leigh · 10-26-10, 01:25 AM

Yeah when I mean a grain mix... I mean whole grains in bulk at the grocery store - intended for human consumption. Not those commercial rat seed mixes found at Walmart and pet stores. I also wanted to point out that feeding your rats dog food doesn't benefit the snake, unless you were to gut load. (feed right before you kill) Feeding them a good quality rat food will always produce the biggest healthiest rats. Check out my big 2lb boy Oliver.. who is just 9 months old.

I have a lot of respect for snake owners that can show some compassion towards their feeders. I totally agree that there is a margin for error with breaking the neck. There will never really be a nice way to pre kill them, if there was a humane way with Co2 that would be great. You have to remember that rats by instinct are great at hiding pain, so you really need to look closely at studies and see how 'distress' was measured. I am part of two large pet rat forums, here is a link to one of our stickies about using Co2 which contain some good links: The Rat Shack • View topic - Euthanasia using CO2

infernalis · 10-26-10, 04:28 AM

I just got a big bag of raw peanuts.. the rats love them.

I use a lot of corn flakes and bran flakes (human ceral) too.

Whenever I buy fresh carrots from the produce dept... they just love them.

This big guy is "Buck" he is freaking huge! He also rules the harem. He's a happy rat.

presspirate · 10-26-10, 11:41 AM

Those rats are huge! And cute as the dickens!

infernalis · 10-26-10, 11:45 AM

I just wish they didn't dribble pee all the time.

They need to make little mini depends (diapers) for rats.

presspirate · 10-26-10, 11:48 AM

Oh yeah. We had 3 females for a few years, when we let them out of the cage to run around it was pellets and pee everywhere. Although it's much easier to clean than ferret poop. Miss a ferret turd for a few days and it's like chiseling cement. You could build houses from that stuff!

infernalis · 10-26-10, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by presspirate

. Miss a ferret turd for a few days and it's like chiseling cement. You could build houses from that stuff!

who would want to live in that house? not me that's for sure.

although I imagine the taxes would be cheap.

candyraver69 · 10-26-10, 03:23 PM

Thanks for the links Ema I will check them out

gorgeous big boy there!

Your buck is gorgeous too Wayne. You must be doing something right. I read somewhere that raw peanuts can be bad for rats but I can't remember where. If I can recall I will link the study. I am sure they are fine in moderation though.

None of my boys are full grown yet except possibly that rescue Lucky (not sure on his age, if he's full grown he's on the small end weighing in at 380 grams). I've been raising girls up until him just as pets except for years and years ago when I bred rats for my pythons. Lucky was way too sweet not to help and so I adopted him planning to neuter him to go with my girls once he was back to good health but he created such a soft-spot for boys in the family that I decided forget the neutering and just got a few baby boys to be his friends and keep a girl cage and a boy cage. (there goes another $300 for a new critter nation double, lol).

SO glad all their quarantines are over so I don't have rat cages scattered all over the house in different rooms :P

here is Lucky hanging with my youngest son while he watched TV. he's a rex so his hair looks all messy :P

Squizgar, Keerakh, and GusGus shortly after I brought them home. The breeder was letting them go a little young but they are growing fast and doing fine now:

Splinter, who refuses to let me good a good pic of him. He's an odd-eye (one pink and one dark red eye) but he didn't approve of me getting a pic that shows it. He's gonna be a BIG boy like his daddy. He's not quite 2 months now and almost caught up to Lucky in size:

video of my girls learning how to fish for veggies. it's a bit old, I need to take a new one now that they are veterans :P
YouTube - ratties fishing

infernalis · 10-26-10, 04:14 PM

quick question if anyone knows..

I have a litter of rats that was only fed just enough to survive for what ever reason, they are now eating solid food but are tiny like mice...

Does that permanently stunt growth?? will they always be a lot smaller than rats that had unlimited milk as babies?

Jenn_06 · 10-26-10, 05:29 PM

does that mean anything that one eye is pink and the other eye is dark red, just asking because my breeder male as that.