Feeding Poll

[DeadlyDesires]

Originally Posted by snakekid6996

I feed my snakes f/t, because its cheaper, easier to store larger amounts, and less likely to hurt the snake. I feed in a separate container, because I'm afraid bedding inthe snakes enclosure could get stuck on the rats fur and cause impaction. Both my snakes eat fine anywhere so I don't think it's a bad thing for them.

Your snake will not get impacted from feeding inside the enclosure, as long as you have proper heat and humidity (as you should anyway) there is no need to feed outside the enclosure... if your afraid of getting bit you shouldn't own the snake.. just my opinion..

i used to feed outside the enclosures not too very long ago.. someone brought it to my attention that i will be lugging an 8ft snake to somewhere (god knows where) to feed if i wanna keep doing that,i was also afraid of the whole "impaction" thing so i decided i'd give it a try and my snake eats faster, better, and is more calm, and i dont have to worry about being bit trying to transfer her back because she didnt want me to mess with her, you are only stressing out your snake. your reasons are all your own and its your choice not your snakes, if it were your snakes they would choose the better option. feed inside enclosure.

[Mark Taylor]

Just because that's the way he does it!!!! I do understand the reasons for people to feed live in a separate enclosure etc choices choices.

So far there are 4 that recommend live
And 3 that recommend separate enclosure

I would love to hear why you would recommend them. Out of interest if nothing els.

[DeadlyDesires]

Originally Posted by Mark Taylor

Just because that's the way he does it!!!! I do understand the reasons for people to feed live in a separate enclosure etc choices choices.

So far there are 4 that recommend live
And 3 that recommend separate enclosure

I would love to hear why you would recommend them. Out of interest if nothing els.

i recommended bases on the individual snake.. i have a boa that doesn't eat ft or prekilled. i have tried. not sure if im doing something wrong but i will continue to try until she decides to eat ft or prekilled. my Ball will eat ft but its not my snake its my boyfriends and its his decision what he wants to feed it so my opinion is a moo point on that one. I also feed inside my enclosures on both.

[StudentoReptile]

I voted yes for feeding live. I've said my piece many times before: if you keep your snake in optimal conditions (i.e. proper space, temps, humidity, etc.), there will be very little risk feeding live.

Yes, I will concur that there is no risk in a dead rodent injuring a snake...by biting. However, I've lost count how many cases I've run hear of snakes go months and months without eating...all because either the keeper refuses to feed live, or they are keeping the snake incorrectly, or they are offering F/T incorrectly...when the whole time, the snake could have been eating something while they are figuring things out. Keepers need to be more flexible and adhere to the needs of their animals, not the other way around.

[StudentoReptile]

Scenario #1: "My snake was injured/bitten when I fed it a live rat, so I'm switching it to F/T."

Okay, let's analyze this for a moment, before you mess with this snake's feeding routine. Why and how did the injury occur?
A.) FIRST AND FOREMOST: Is your habitat set-up properly, with correct temperatures, thermal gradient, and humidity levels, adequate hiding shelters, etc.? If the answer is no, correct any issues before changing diet.
B.) Was the prey item appropriately sized? General rule of thumb is that the prey should be no larger than the largest/widest part of the snake's body. Some exceptions for species with not-so-wide jaws, like kingsnakes, milksnakes, sand boas, etc, in which err on the smaller side of prey size.
C.) Did you leave the prey unattended with the snake? [In my experience, most hungry snakes will take the prey within a few minutes of it being offered. Some snakes will strike out of irritation/defense if they are not hungry; experienced keepers can tell the difference...especially for constrictors, if they have not actually struck and coiled around prey!]
D.) Was the snake in the middle of a shed cycle?
E.) Was there a large audience watching the snake trying to feed? [I come across this a lot. New keepers invite their friends over to watch the "feeding" and often everyone is disappointed at the role reversal, of a snake who doesn't want to eat in front of a crowd and the rat takes the offensive. NOTE: You do want to monitor the snake and its prey, but its not a spectator sport. No sudden movements and increased activity around the cage to distract the snake.]
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I come across all of these scenarios very often, many times in combination during a single feeding. The keeper is wondering why the snake didn't eat and why the rat attacked their snake.

Likewise, people can screw up with F/T as well, and there have been some interesting and amusing stories regarding that, too; people don't thaw them out properly, some folks stick them in the microwave, they reheat them again and again if the snake doesn't eat right away and keep offering, frustrating and irrtating the snake and ultimately wasting the prey item. Another reason I prefer live: in some cases, an uneaten F/T prey goes to waste. Live can live on to fed another day.

[red ink]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

Scenario #1: "My snake was injured/bitten when I fed it a live rat, so I'm switching it to F/T."

Probably a good thing if it's sustained an injury during feeding...

Okay, let's analyze this for a moment, before you mess with this snake's feeding routine. Why and how did the injury occur?
A.) FIRST AND FOREMOST: Is your habitat set-up properly, with correct temperatures, thermal gradient, and humidity levels, adequate hiding shelters, etc.? If the answer is no, correct any issues before changing diet.

These are husbandry issues not a feeding routine issue. If the keeper can't even get them correct then they definitely have no business feeding live.

B.) Was the prey item appropriately sized? General rule of thumb is that the prey should be no larger than the largest/widest part of the snake's body. Some exceptions for species with not-so-wide jaws, like kingsnakes, milksnakes, sand boas, etc, in which err on the smaller side of prey size.

These issues are negated by FT or PK. None of it matters as dead prey won't injure the snake. They will simply refuse the feed with no chance of being injured with FT/PK.

C.) Did you leave the prey unattended with the snake? [In my experience, most hungry snakes will take the prey within a few minutes of it being offered. Some snakes will strike out of irritation/defense if they are not hungry; experienced keepers can tell the difference...especially for constrictors, if they have not actually struck and coiled around prey!]

Same point as above FT/PK left for long periods unattended still pose no potential for injury.

D.) Was the snake in the middle of a shed cycle?

An issue of inexperience which would only be compunded by live feeding. Same stance as point A.

E.) Was there a large audience watching the snake trying to feed? [I come across this a lot. New keepers invite their friends over to watch the "feeding" and often everyone is disappointed at the role reversal, of a snake who doesn't want to eat in front of a crowd and the rat takes the offensive. NOTE: You do want to monitor the snake and its prey, but its not a spectator sport. No sudden movements and increased activity around the cage to distract the snake.]

Something that should never be done feeding FT/PK or live, again an issue with the keeper rather than the prey item. Still the same point though if done in this scenario with FT/PK... it sits there dead, un-eaten with no possible physical threat to the snake.

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I come across all of these scenarios very often, many times in combination during a single feeding. The keeper is wondering why the snake didn't eat and why the rat attacked their snake.

Likewise, people can screw up with F/T as well, and there have been some interesting and amusing stories regarding that, too; people don't thaw them out properly, some folks stick them in the microwave, they reheat them again and again if the snake doesn't eat right away and keep offering, frustrating and irrtating the snake and ultimately wasting the prey item. Another reason I prefer live: in some cases, an uneaten F/T prey goes to waste. Live can live on to fed another day.

Keeper error rather than prey item issue... Live can be fed live another day but issues arising from an injured snake are a lot harder to deal with than throwing away a $5 rat.

I hope I don't come across as being argumentative mate... just reason why I don't think live feeding is appropriate given those scenarios.

I have no qualms about live feeding but it is a last resort method for me rather than the norm. I would prefer to assist feed first even before considering live feed to fussy or non-feeding snakes.

[StudentoReptile]

I'll elaborate on my previous points.

A.) If the snake is not kept in optimal conditions, it will not be as inclined to feed. Example: a snake kept in a dry tank, with no hides, low humidity and incorrect heating is offered food, dead or alive, it may not eat, and if it does, it may not digest the food properly, and possibly even regurgitate. So Red Ink, sorry to disagree, but YES, habitat/environment can affect feeding! So if the keeper is offering a live rat to a snake in this type of habitat, I will concur the risk of injury is increased, but if they are continuing to feed F/T to the snake in the same environment and change nothing...you still have a snake susceptible to RI and shedding issues, etc.

B.) True, size may not matter in terms of ingestion and digestion, but it can matter in terms of subduing live prey. My point was that there are wrong ways to do things (Ex: offering an adult rat to a juvenile BP) which will likely end in failure, and there are right ways (offering a correct-size rodent to the snake that is healthy and kept ideally) which risk is quite minimal.

C.) Waste: Live prey can be re-used. F/T cannot (or rather should not) be refrozen to used again. Prekilled cannot be revived to killed again.

D.) Again, My point was that there are wrong ways to do things which will likely end in failure, and there are right ways which risk is quite minimal. Feeding live to a healthy snake not in shed shouldn't be much risk.
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People look to the F/T as the end-all solution to all feeding problems for snakes and quite simply, it is not. You are correct; much of it is keeper error. But I emphasize that a healthy snake kept in optimal conditions will have not trouble dealing with live prey. They have been doing it for millions of years, and being a glass tank doesn't necessarily change it. I find that most people want snakes to be "pets" that they can just feed something from a bag or a can (how far is F/T from that); anything to make our lives easier, right? That's why frozen rodents caught on; not some notion on the snake's safety.

[red ink]

I understand you points more now Student.. thanks and I completely agree given the right conditions live feeding would pose a minimal issue.

My point was put simply:

Keeper inadequacy + live feeding = possible physical to the specimen specimen along with husbandry issues.

Keeper inadequacy + FT/PK prey items = Husbandry issue but negates the physical injuries that may be associated with live feeding.

I do have a bit of disagreement about the point of evolutionary adaptation. They have been taking live prey which they have evloved to do (and in fact IMO excel in it over any mammalian species), this I totally agree with. My point of contention on it would be the fact that they are in a box and no longer in a natural environment. This would lead me to believe that care must be tailored to a box micro-environment far removed from a natural setting.

At a point I would agree that if the keeper's level of understanding and comprehension of their captives is at a level that would consider the implications and "proper" setting in a artificial micro habitat, then live feeding is totally possible and in fact safe.

Unfortunately I have met very far and few of these keepers (you being the former and obviously understands the complexity involving live feeding rather than just throwing the prey in), this leads me to err on the side of caution and recommend FT always.

If keepers just want "pet snakes" then they definitely need to do it the "pet way" which is grab it out of a bag, thaw it out and throw it in there.

[Bloedig]

Seems that this poll was a good idea. Gives everyone a chance to voice their opinions about the topic, and gives a pretty clear answer to what the majority do / recommend.

Glad I started the thread/poll.

[StudentoReptile]

The funny thing is that these threads pop up all the time. Give it another few months, and another one will arise.

[drewkore]

I feed mostly F/T simply because that is the most convenient. I have one older snake that I feed live exclusively. He is kept in the same manner as other younger snakes who accept F/T without issue. He accepted F/T for years but has become finicky in his golden years. Would he eventually accept F/T before he starved to death? Probably. I prefer,however, to keep him eating by giving him what he wants rather than have him waste away because he won't eat the way I want him to. Just my two cents, but I feel at some point the snakes health is more important than us being able to impose our will.

[KORBIN5895]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

The funny thing is that these threads pop up all the time. Give it another few months, and another one will arise.

This. I just didn't feel like getting involved in this conversation.

[Marc eh]

This impaction myth is rediculous. Like someone said already. These animals have survived millions and millions of years. Let alone in a controlled environment. If you notice the snake had a big piece of substrate in its mouth after if struck what ever your feeding, grab a quick pair of tongs and just get it out. My boa has done it. I've taken the piece out with tongs, and I've just left it if I couldn't get it. But this has happened to me personally maybe 2 or 3 times. And I've had snakes for almost ten years now. Never once have I had an impaction. And I have always fed on the substrate. As for the F/T debate, I personally feed F/T because its easier for me. Luckily for me I've never had a snake that wouldn't take F/T. I know it happens. I think it's personal preference. I feel you should always watch the snake eat the rat, mouse what ever. Especially if its live, 100% of the time you should watch. And if you don't watch a live feed we'll your an idiot. My 2 cents. Cheers everyone

[Mark Taylor]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

The funny thing is that these threads pop up all the time. Give it another few months, and another one will arise.

It shouldn't if it was a sticky

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

This. I just didn't feel like getting involved in this conversation.

[KORBIN5895]

We really don't need another sticky unless they plan on moving them all to a sticky only forum.

I have joined into this type of conversation so many times it's not funny but let me highlight my normal points. A dead feeder can't hurt the snake. A person that feeds live for pleasure is a tool. Frozen is more convenient for me. A snake eating live food isn't hunting. Your snake usually doesn't care what it's fed. If your snake won't eat a live prey what do you do with it?