hybridizing / morphs & melanin

[bushsnake]

Originally Posted by infernalis

The genetic defects we are talking about almost always describe a lack of a certain colour.

In other words, remove the yellow pigment from a green snake, you should see blue, remove the blue pigment you see a visual yellow.

The one exception is Melanistic, melanistic means excessive melanin, or black pigment.

A "snow" lacks all pigment.

Since a red snake is usually a brown snake missing the yellow and blue pigments, simply breeding a blue snake to a red snake will not produce a purple snake.

remove blue?
a red snake is a brown snake missing yellow?
Where did you learn this crap Scott Felzer and Jeff Benfer?
JUST MORE BAD INFORMATION!!!!!!!!!!

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by bushsnake

remove blue?
a red snake is a brown snake missing yellow?
Where did you learn this crap Scott Felzer and Jeff Benfer?
JUST MORE BAD INFORMATION!!!!!!!!!!

So present your version Joe. would be delighted to see it.

[Corey209]

I personally would only breed a hybrid if the outcome had a huge difference in pattern or color from the original parents. Some beautiful examples of hybrids are the GTP x Carpet Python and the ETB x ATB.

[bushsnake]

Originally Posted by infernalis

So present your version Joe. would be delighted to see it.

sorry for my little rant but ive had enough

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Gregg, you make really good points in regards to everything on topic.

The only part I have with hybrids that you didn't mention, is that in captivity even though they are biological "dead" I believe, with my "human morals" it's our duty to keep stuff "clean".

We all like our different species and prefer to work with various ones so I don't see why we need to muddle up a lot of them. Some moreso than others. I find it extremely hard to believe that there are pure lines of carpet pythons still out there, for example. Which is sad. Since over here we can't get anymore wild ones.

although i agree its hard to find pure carpets Aaron...

there are still some pure morelia out there,but NOT many mate

some still get through to Europe and the USA...

for example Terry Philps of the reptile garden (if i'm remembering correctly,am i Gregg ? ) has Morelia Carinata - the Rough Scaled Python,which he successfully bred 2 years ago

in 2012 a few breeders in Europe got some roughies,from the German Government,who caught them being smuggled into the Country

i believe there are still a lot of pure Diamond Pythons out there,there are well documented Diamonds in the USA,bronx zoo lines,gary valle lines,and more

as far as what a traditional Diamond should look like,imo a mongeral Diamond is very easy to spot

but for the most part it is impossible to proove pure lines without lineage

re jungles
what passes for a good looking traditional jungle,here in the UK and Europe,looks not much like most of the Australian Jungles

cheers shaun

[Snakeman8]

theres a pure baby coastal at a petstore not far from here, i see pure carpets all time... but by pure luck.
pardon my spelling

[beardeds4life]

how do you know if they are pure? Do the owners/petshops show you lineages? I would bet money that they have no idea.

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by bushsnake

remove blue?
a red snake is a brown snake missing yellow?
Where did you learn this crap Scott Felzer and Jeff Benfer?
JUST MORE BAD INFORMATION!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by infernalis

So present your version Joe. would be delighted to see it.

Originally Posted by bushsnake

sorry for my little rant but ive had enough

imo you can't call someone out for giving bad info,then when challenged to proove what your saying..

you then run away

epic fail mate,no ?

cheers shaun

[Gregg M]

Originally Posted by bushsnake

remove blue?
a red snake is a brown snake missing yellow?
Where did you learn this crap Scott Felzer and Jeff Benfer?
JUST MORE BAD INFORMATION!!!!!!!!!!

I am sure Wayne was being hypothetical for the most part. It really all depends on how the gene works. Wether ii is co-dom, incomplete dom, recessive, or polygenic.

As far along as the reptile hobby is in morphs, I thin there is still a huge lack of understanding on how the genes work and there is even mislabling going on often.

What we consider co-dom in the reptile world is not always so. Sometimes it is actually incomplete donimance.

Many animals that are labled anerythristic are actually axanthics. Recessive mutations that have "het markers" are not actually recessive.

There are so many actual mistakes being made when it comes to morphs in this hobby, it is really pointless to have a rant over a hypothetical statement. Also, Wayne asked for your knowledge on the subject and you did not offer any. If you want to make a point, at least back it up with something substancial.

Originally Posted by beardeds4life

how do you know if they are pure? Do the owners/petshops show you lineages? I would bet money that they have no idea.

I agree with what you are getting at for the most part. However, pure lines of carpets are getting easier and esier to find these days depending on who you go to.

However, with carpets, even in the wild there are numerous "mutts". There are animals between ranges that even the experts can not tell what sub they are. This is usually how and why new subspecies get described. The "mutt" carpets you find on the market are not hybrids. They are locality intergrades that can and do occure in their natural range.

[Snakeman8]

i get info to see if their pure, i asked the owner and he said yeah and if im interested i said no just curious.
if my spelling is bad then its because of the stupid auto correct on my tab.

[bushsnake]

[QUOTE=Gregg M;802005]I am sure Wayne was being hypothetical for the most part. It really all depends on how the gene works. Wether ii is co-dom, incomplete dom, recessive, or polygenic.

As far along as the reptile hobby is in morphs, I thin there is still a huge lack of understanding on how the genes work and there is even mislabling going on often.

What we consider co-dom in the reptile world is not always so. Sometimes it is actually incomplete donimance.

Many animals that are labled anerythristic are actually axanthics. Recessive mutations that have "het markers" are not actually recessive.

There are so many actual mistakes being made when it comes to morphs in this hobby, it is really pointless to have a rant over a hypothetical statement. Also, Wayne asked for your knowledge on the subject and you did not offer any. If you want to make a point, at least back it up with something substancial.]
ive given my knowledge on the subject a ton of times, Wayne knows that and i am very knowledgable on the subject i love talking about that stuff but Wayne is not interested in learning about that cuz thats what he told me anyways i did over react thats why i said sorry but if you have no knowledge on the subject then you should keep your mouth shut

[Aaron_S]

[QUOTE=bushsnake;802992]

Originally Posted by Gregg M

I am sure Wayne was being hypothetical for the most part. It really all depends on how the gene works. Wether ii is co-dom, incomplete dom, recessive, or polygenic.

As far along as the reptile hobby is in morphs, I thin there is still a huge lack of understanding on how the genes work and there is even mislabling going on often.

What we consider co-dom in the reptile world is not always so. Sometimes it is actually incomplete donimance.

Many animals that are labled anerythristic are actually axanthics. Recessive mutations that have "het markers" are not actually recessive.

There are so many actual mistakes being made when it comes to morphs in this hobby, it is really pointless to have a rant over a hypothetical statement. Also, Wayne asked for your knowledge on the subject and you did not offer any. If you want to make a point, at least back it up with something substancial.]
ive given my knowledge on the subject a ton of times, Wayne knows that and i am very knowledgable on the subject i love talking about that stuff but Wayne is not interested in learning about that cuz thats what he told me anyways i did over react thats why i said sorry but if you have no knowledge on the subject then you should keep your mouth shut

Sure I agree that if you don't know what you're talking about then not to speak as if you know. Ask questions yes, but not act like the expert.

The problem I have with YOU at this point is you aren't willing to give the information here publicly when asked so the REST of us may learn something if they don't know then you shouldn't have said anything in the first place. If you're going to correct someone, you should give ALL the information for others to learn from as well.