Santa Clause is Coming

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Wildside

I've always thought it was a standard rule NOT to mess with stable temps during incubation.

Me too. But hey could the be new "cutting edge" way to sell your leos. Change the colours with temps since you can't hack it as a real breeder making quality animals.

[BarelyBreathing]

Originally Posted by Wildside

Show me the proof for this tried and true method.

BTW what part of my gecko is showing muddy color? He is bright yellow and his spots are clearly defined.

Look up Ron Tremper's study, Texas A&M's study, and I believe Rainwater did a study on it, too, but I may be mixing him up with another breeder. Also, Designer Gecko puts out information on this, as they also practice this method. They are the people who taught me about it. It's very popular in the leopard gecko world, and doesn't interfere with the hatch rate, size, or health of the animal.

Here is what a not dark and muddy normal leopard gecko looks like:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

So people are faking things then eh?

What?

[Wildside]

Originally Posted by BarelyBreathing

Look up Ron Tremper's study, Texas A&M's study, and I believe Rainwater did a study on it, too, but I may be mixing him up with another breeder. Also, Designer Gecko puts out information on this, as they also practice this method. They are the people who taught me about it. It's very popular in the leopard gecko world, and doesn't interfere with the hatch rate, size, or health of the animal.

Here is what a not dark and muddy normal leopard gecko looks like:

LEOPARDGECKO.COM | Color FAQ

Everything on this page is about female morphs not male normals.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by BarelyBreathing

Look up Ron Tremper's study, Texas A&M's study, and I believe Rainwater did a study on it, too, but I may be mixing him up with another breeder. Also, Designer Gecko puts out information on this, as they also practice this method. They are the people who taught me about it. It's very popular in the leopard gecko world, and doesn't interfere with the hatch rate, size, or health of the animal.

Here is what a not dark and muddy normal leopard gecko looks like:

First up, I meant that people are "faking" colours. It's a tough line of thinking to follow so bare with me. Leos look a certain way and can vary. When you start fluctuating temperatures to make them "pop" or look a certain way then you're "faking" those colour genetics to sell the animals.

It happens in ball pythons except nobody does it on purpose. If someone has an issue with their incubator then sometimes the babies come out as "classic jungles" (busy pattern) or just a weird looking form of the specific mutation. Nobody sells them for more because it just carries the same genes as whatever it's 'supposed' to be.

As for asking for facts, how about you link the readings? The onus is on YOU to prove us wrong with actual fact. I can go tell you to look up whatever point I make but since you actually were "taught" this and brought it up, then you should show the readings. I do not have the time to sift through a bunch of searches.

I could be wholly wrong but I have an addiction to knowing as much as possible so I'm really curious about this information.

[BarelyBreathing]

Originally Posted by Wildside

LEOPARDGECKO.COM | Color FAQ

Everything on this page is about female morphs not male normals.

LEOPARDGECKO.COM | Effects of Temperature

This fact isn't dependant on morph. This happens all across the leopard gecko world, in both males and females.

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

First up, I meant that people are "faking" colours. It's a tough line of thinking to follow so bare with me. Leos look a certain way and can vary. When you start fluctuating temperatures to make them "pop" or look a certain way then you're "faking" those colour genetics to sell the animals.

It happens in ball pythons except nobody does it on purpose. If someone has an issue with their incubator then sometimes the babies come out as "classic jungles" (busy pattern) or just a weird looking form of the specific mutation. Nobody sells them for more because it just carries the same genes as whatever it's 'supposed' to be.

As for asking for facts, how about you link the readings? The onus is on YOU to prove us wrong with actual fact. I can go tell you to look up whatever point I make but since you actually were "taught" this and brought it up, then you should show the readings. I do not have the time to sift through a bunch of searches.

I could be wholly wrong but I have an addiction to knowing as much as possible so I'm really curious about this information.

I got it now. I'm not sure they are faking, because they aren't advertising a normal as a "super bright normal" and selling it for more money. Genetically speaking, a normal is a normal, an albino is an albino, and temperature controllinng the color isn't going to affect what morph it is or what type of offspring it produces. A good breeder will tell you that if you are considering buying one animal over another because it's "brighter". It's called being a responsible seller.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by BarelyBreathing

...I got it now. I'm not sure they are faking, because they aren't advertising a normal as a "super bright normal" and selling it for more money. Genetically speaking, a normal is a normal, an albino is an albino, and temperature controllinng the color isn't going to affect what morph it is or what type of offspring it produces. A good breeder will tell you that if you are considering buying one animal over another because it's "brighter". It's called being a responsible seller.

I know what being a responsible seller is since I do it on a regular basis Thanks for the info though.

The problem I have with your link is that at the bottom it points out how people have "pretty" albinos and others do not. Thus making their babies more marketable. It's kind of false in my opinion. That's dirty. Regardless of how it's been done, it's still dirty. My other issue is that no where did it say temps are dropped or bumped after a 3 week time period. I think it's wrong to cut the incubation time or length it to sell babies easier. Do you have info on long term care of these animals? Any issues? Any genetic or organ testing done? I know it was done by this one person with 200 animals BUT nothing really long term since someone can hatch 200 in a single season.

You still haven't given other info as requested.


EDIT: LEOPARDGECKO.COM | Color FAQ

This link here proves that people falsify information. They now call these lighter albinos "lavender". Thus selling fake animals since lavender is technically a different albino strain in many other animals. Here it is but a colour phase. It also states that this is "true genetics" thus being passed on as "fake genes" in my opinion.

To each their own though. I rather buy from an actual "good breeder" than someone who found a way to market their animals a certain way.

[BarelyBreathing]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I know what being a responsible seller is since I do it on a regular basis Thanks for the info though.

The problem I have with your link is that at the bottom it points out how people have "pretty" albinos and others do not. Thus making their babies more marketable. It's kind of false in my opinion. That's dirty. Regardless of how it's been done, it's still dirty. My other issue is that no where did it say temps are dropped or bumped after a 3 week time period. I think it's wrong to cut the incubation time or length it to sell babies easier. Do you have info on long term care of these animals? Any issues? Any genetic or organ testing done? I know it was done by this one person with 200 animals BUT nothing really long term since someone can hatch 200 in a single season.

You still haven't given other info as requested.

I'm not saying you aren't, I'm just stating that any responsible breeder has that duty to their buyers.

Personally I think they're all pretty. Some of my favorite leopard geckos in my personal collection are darker due to incubation temperatures. That's just me, though. Some people prefer darker, some prefer lighter.

What information are you looking for? This information is all over the internet.

As far as long term care and issues, this has been going on for some time now. There have been no issues as far as health in comparison to other geckos. My oldest gecko has been incubated for more vibrant colors, and he's as healthy as ever. He eats, poops, breeds, he's active, he's never been ill. I've never had him genetically tested, nor have I had his organs tested in any way.

The time frame is underlined in the link that Wildside provided. I made a mistake and confused male and female sex temperatures. Females are the ones that are switched, males are not. Males incubated at 90F are brighter, any lower and they are darker. Females are incubated lower for three weeks (the link says 22 days), then their temperatures are brought up.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by BarelyBreathing

Look up Ron Tremper's study, Texas A&M's study, and I believe Rainwater did a study on it, too, but I may be mixing him up with another breeder. Also, Designer Gecko puts out information on this, as they also practice this method. They are the people who taught me about it. It's very popular in the leopard gecko world, and doesn't interfere with the hatch rate, size, or health of the animal...

Find these specific studies and post them. I'm not doing your work for you. Again, the onus is on you to provide these papers or links since it's your back-up. I find my own information, you find yours.

[BarelyBreathing]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Find these specific studies and post them. I'm not doing your work for you. Again, the onus is on you to provide these papers or links since it's your back-up. I find my own information, you find yours.

Yeah, okay, because I'm the one who wanted that information. The OP asked what morph the animals were, and I answered.

[Wildside]

Originally Posted by BarelyBreathing

Yeah, okay, because I'm the one who wanted that information. The OP asked what morph the animals were, and I answered.

Actually I know what morph the one I produced is. I just wanted to know about the albino since I bought it in the pet shop. I think the theory of incubation temps having an effect on coloring is interesting. So interesting in fact that I'm gonna conduct an experiment with my blizzards this season.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by BarelyBreathing

Yeah, okay, because I'm the one who wanted that information. The OP asked what morph the animals were, and I answered.

LOLOL You want to spout information and not back it up?! It's the ETB/GTP thread all over again

You no longer have a shoddy internet connection. You can look it up.

As of now. You fail at ever proving yourself.

EDIT: Here's 5 years of "pet Talk" at Texas A&M. You can maybe skim through all these and see if I missed the one I'm supposed to see. I figured I'd make it easier for you.

Pet Talk - Texas A&M Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences

[BarelyBreathing]

Originally Posted by Wildside

Actually I know what morph the one I produced is. I just wanted to know about the albino since I bought it in the pet shop. I think the theory of incubation temps having an effect on coloring is interesting. So interesting in fact that I'm gonna conduct an experiment with my blizzards this season.

Oh, then I misunderstood the question. I'd love to see the outcome of the experiment.

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

LOLOL You want to spout information and not back it up?! It's the ETB/GTP thread all over again

You no longer have a shoddy internet connection. You can look it up.

As of now. You fail at ever proving yourself.

EDIT: Here's 5 years of "pet Talk" at Texas A&M. You can maybe skim through all these and see if I missed the one I'm supposed to see. I figured I'd make it easier for you.

Pet Talk - Texas A&M Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences

Actually, I did give you the information. I'm not sure what you're asking.

[Wildside]

Originally Posted by BarelyBreathing

Oh, then I misunderstood the question. I'd love to see the outcome of the experiment.

Me too but I have a little problem that I can't quite figure out... How do you turn the incubator up at three weeks when they are laying eggs continuously over that time period? Do you need like 50 incubators?

[BarelyBreathing]

Originally Posted by Wildside

Me too but I have a little problem that I can't quite figure out... How do you turn the incubator up at three weeks when they are laying eggs continuously over that time period? Do you need like 50 incubators?

I have two, one set to a lower temperature and one set to a higher temperature. Also, I can set them at room temperature in my monitor area until I need to increase the temperature.

[Wildside]

I will set up 3. That way I have a noob incubator, then a hot incubator and a cool incubator. I'm gonna use my blizzards for this experiment since they have such a wide range of color variation anyway.