Mouth Rot?

[EmbraceCalamity]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

I like MVBs, but I didn't suggest them in this case because I wasn't sure how large the tank was. They do not come in small wattage sizes, and a 100+ watt heat bulb (UV or not) may be too much for two hatchling RES. Of course, that is up to the keeper to decide with their particular set-up, using a temp gun.

The setup is just a plastic tub that's maybe 6" deep. It's just temporary, of course. When I found out I'd be getting them, I just ran out to the dollar store and got a plastic tub, and cut out the inside of the lid and put wire in it. (Today is Sunday, so virtually nothing will be open until tomorrow, and I'm hoping to get them today.) I would have liked to have gotten something deeper, but they had only that and ones that were super deep, and I didn't want to risk that I wouldn't be able to keep it warm enough if it was too deep. Plus they're only maybe 1 1/2" long. As soon as I can, I'll transfer them to something bigger with more water and a filter.

Speaking of which, as I don't have a filter right now (and the water is going to be pretty shallow), would an air pump be of any benefit?

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

I would get a 5.0 ReptiSun (that's Zoo Med brand) tube florescent light strip. Those are the best ones. Have this on about 12 hrs a day.

*I do NOT suggest getting the compact florescent bulbs. There is much debate on whether or not these bulbs cause blindness in turtles & tortoises. Some keepers claim that they do. Conclusive results are pending, but most savvy hobbyists would say to avoid them just the same.

For heat, I would use any appropriately-wattage basking bulb or CHE (ceramic heat emitter). I like the CHEs because I can leave them on 24/7.

So there's no reliable bulb that does both? Not to be cheap or anything, but I'm really broke right now and still will need to pay for a vet visit, and I have no idea how I'm gonna do that. Anyone want to buy a 150w CHE that I'm not using? .___.

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

Mercury vapor bulbs are the only bulbs that reliably offer both heat and UVA/UVB. As I aluded to before, the issue lies in that because they are self-ballasted, they don't really come in small wattages, only offered in 100 and 160 watts. Obviously, they are also not cheap ($35-60, depending on the venue...usually cheaper online).

Also, because they are large, there lies an issue trying to heat/offer UV in small enclosures. If you raise the bulb too high to lower basking temps, there is reduced exposure to UV due to the greater distance. The effect is reversed when you lower the bulb: too intense UV beams, and too high basking temps.

If you are strapped for cash, I would go for a normal reptile-specific basking bulb ($10-12) for the time being until you can afford the better UV lighting. Priorities are proper temps and clean water. If you can, take them outside on a warm afternoon for about 20-30 mins to get some real sun until you can get the lights.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

Mercury vapor bulbs are the only bulbs that reliably offer both heat and UVA/UVB. As I aluded to before, the issue lies in that because they are self-ballasted, they don't really come in small wattages, only offered in 100 and 160 watts. Obviously, they are also not cheap ($35-60, depending on the venue...usually cheaper online).

Also, because they are large, there lies an issue trying to heat/offer UV in small enclosures. If you raise the bulb too high to lower basking temps, there is reduced exposure to UV due to the greater distance. The effect is reversed when you lower the bulb: too intense UV beams, and too high basking temps.

If you are strapped for cash, I would go for a normal reptile-specific basking bulb ($10-12) for the time being until you can afford the better UV lighting. Priorities are proper temps and clean water. If you can, take them outside on a warm afternoon for about 20-30 mins to get some real sun until you can get the lights.

It's way too cold here to take them outside, but they're going to be in my bathroom which gets a decent amount of sunlight. I'll try to see if I can move them into my room where they'll get even more (but I know not to put them in direct sunlight). There's no reptile place around here, so I'll have to order a UVB light. I should have a spare bulb though.

Would a small air pump be of any benefit in their water?

~Maggot

[Lankyrob]

Just as an example for the MVB's, i used one approx 18 incehes from the substrate and it provided a 130f hotspot

[EmbraceCalamity]

Current setup:



I know it's not perfect, but it was thrown together pretty quickly. Sufficient?

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

I'm not sure if you know this or not, but you mentioned a room with sunlight, so I'll just go ahead anyway: putting them next to a window doesn't cut it. Window glass is made to filter out UV rays. It'll just magnify the sun's heat coming in the window.
-------

An air pump will help the water from going stagnant, so it's beneficial to some degree. Even with a good filter, I would plan on doing partial water changes at least once a week.

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by EmbraceCalamity

My question is: Does this sound like mouth rot? Or am I off base? How treatable is it that this stage? I told her that if the owner was unable or unwilling to treat it, that I'd be willing to take it (as a temporary measure, as I have 0 experience with turtles and don't really feel I could provide a proper enclosure for it).
~Maggot

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
you asked the question about mouth rot

you also said you had ZERO experience


i answered your mouth rot question and advised a course of action,i also suggested you do some research,since you declared you had no experience and felt you could not provide a proper enclosure
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Originally Posted by shaunyboy

now you will have to,RESEARCH them and find out,HOW to GIVE them a PROPER enclosure....

re mouth rot
i've only ever seen it in snakes,it was anything from dark brown/black in colour,to pale creamy/yellow colour...

it was a gunky,pastey looking substance,if you could post pictures,it would give us a better idea of what your dealing with

i used cotton buds,the ones that come with,little cotton buds,at both ends of a little plastic stick,like we would use to clean inside our ears...

just use a little water and try and clean/gently scrape,as much gunk out as you can..

then take him along to the vets,ask him to take swabs and culture them,this will indentify,the exact type of infection and the BEST course of treatment
cheers shaun

you then declared you had already done research,in order for the guy to give them to you,surely part of that research would cover proper enclosures ?

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Originally Posted by EmbraceCalamity

Already did that before I even messaged the guy. If nothing else and he wouldn't give them to me, I wanted to be able to give him information on how to care for them better. You underestimate me.
Red-eared sliders.
I'm gonna try to make an appointment with the vet on Monday. I've done some research on how to treat it, and I'll do more before I get it.

Don't worry. I've nursed much stranger things back to health.

~Maggot

i answered both YOUR queries from your first post,questions you appear to already have the answers for.....

i answered because you asked,NOT because i underestimated you in any way

re treatment
imo you would be better waiting on a vet confirming that its mouth rot,before doing anything other than a light/gentle clean of the gunky stuff

sorry i don't understant why you randomly wrote.....

Red-Eared Sliders,before the part about making a vet appointment ?

re don't worry/strange things
if you already have experience treating reptiles,then you should find it simple enough to clear the mouth rot up,don't worry if it seems to take a few weeks,i've found reptiles heal a lot slower than most animals/humans

re mouth rot thread
doing a progression thread of pictures during treatment,would give others an idea of how to treat mouth rot,should their reptile get it,(thats if it won't stress the turtle,or take up too much time)

i hope everything goes well with the turtles,please let us know how it goes

cheers shaun

[EmbraceCalamity]

So I picked them up. One won't open its eyes and is very lethargic, though there doesn't appear to me any obvious damage to it. The other's mouth seems to have cleared up some (the water had been changed thank god), but it's got a hard growth on the side of its head and part of its lower jaw is missing. It's very active though. So now I have no idea what's wrong with these guys. =/

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

I'm not sure if you know this or not, but you mentioned a room with sunlight, so I'll just go ahead anyway: putting them next to a window doesn't cut it. Window glass is made to filter out UV rays. It'll just magnify the sun's heat coming in the window.

Okay, thanks for letting me know. I wasn't talking about that being enough though. I know they'll still need UVB. I was just saying that maybe that would help a little until I can get a UVB.

Originally Posted by shaunyboy

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
you asked the question about mouth rot

you also said you had ZERO experience


i answered your mouth rot question and advised a course of action,i also suggested you do some research,since you declared you had no experience and felt you could not provide a proper enclosure

...Yes? I know. I was there for this conversation. And I meant long-term, not immediately.

Originally Posted by shaunyboy

you then declared you had already done research,in order for the guy to give them to you,surely part of that research would cover proper enclosures ?

I wasn't saying I didn't know how to provide a proper enclosure. But full grown turtles require huge enclosures, which I know I won't be able to provide down the road.

Originally Posted by shaunyboy

i answered both YOUR queries from your first post,questions you appear to already have the answers for.....

i answered because you asked,NOT because i underestimated you in any way

Dude, I was just kidding, hence the "". Calm down.

Originally Posted by shaunyboy

re treatment
imo you would be better waiting on a vet confirming that its mouth rot,before doing anything other than a light/gentle clean of the gunky stuff

sorry i don't understant why you randomly wrote.....

Red-Eared Sliders,before the part about making a vet appointment ?

Because you mentioned I could get better advice if I put up the exact kind of turtle it was?

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

Post some pics of these guys. I'm especially curious about the missing jaw. That definitely sounds serious!

[EmbraceCalamity]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

Post some pics of these guys. I'm especially curious about the missing jaw. That definitely sounds serious!

Sorry they're crap pics, but in the first one I circled the growth. It's hard and pale colored.

~Maggot

[EmbraceCalamity]

Any ideas how it would have lost the part of its jaw?

~Maggot

[Gungirl]

Oh wow.. they are tiny. Could the missing jaw piece be a defect it was hatched with? I can't tell in the pic how the skin looks.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Originally Posted by Gungirl

Oh wow.. they are tiny. Could the missing jaw piece be a defect it was hatched with? I can't tell in the pic how the skin looks.

He's actually the larger of the two. I just looked at him and the skin looks normal. There's no blood or scabbing or anything. So I guess it's possible it's just a birth defect.

~Maggot

[StudentoReptile]

Yeah...not sure anything could be done about that. Does he eat okay?

[EmbraceCalamity]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

Yeah...not sure anything could be done about that. Does he eat okay?

I dunno. Only had them for a night, and neither have eaten yet. Neither of them will really open their eyes at all. =/

~Maggot