Hognose Regurgitated What do I Do?! - Page 2

Gregg M · 10-08-12, 06:18 PM

In well over 25 years of keeping and breeding various species, I have never seen this problem. Back in the early to mid 90's I was breeding corns, kings, garters and a few other assorted colubrids. I have had my share of regurges and have always followed up a day or two later with a smaller meal. I have yet to see a snake regurge 2 times consecutively. When I was keeping and breeding gaboons, rhino vipers, puff adders, and Atheris, the rare times I had a regurge I would feed a day or two later and had no issues. Why have I not had an issue? It could be because I keep my snakes hotter than most people. Everything I own or have ever owned gets hot spot up in the mid to high 90's. From years of field herping, I have learned that almost all North American snakes will bask at very high temps in the wild. I have found corms, kings, milks, pines, garters, copperheads, and rattlers basking at near 100°F.

You need to remember that we are also talking about hognose snakes here so the same "rules" do not apply. They have a much higher metabolism than most all other North American colubrids. Their digestive systems are very efficient and evolved to handle frequent feedings. There is no reason a hognose snake should ever wait 10 days for a meal.

Jlassiter · 10-08-12, 06:29 PM

Cool........

jaleely · 10-08-12, 07:33 PM

I have not kept reptiles for long, but i keep over 8 different species now and can safely say that the 10 day rule is not applicable for this species of snake, though it is still a colubrid, that classicication is very broad (it includes about two-thirds of all snake species on earth).

To quote a reference "The Colubridae are not a natural group, as many are more closely related to other groups, such as elapids, than to each other.[3] This family has classically been a garbage bin taxon for snakes that do not fit elsewhere."

Keeping hognose is just not going to be the same as keeping other snakes.

So, it's good advice, normally, to wait a while to feed again...generally because the snake may refuse food after a regurge...but for this species, it's not necessary to wait more than a day or so.

: )

Jlassiter · 10-08-12, 08:31 PM

Thanks for your input........

I would never know if a hognose is different in captivity than other colubridae as I don't have the desire to own any.....

But I commend those like Gregg and others that are working with them.....

Btw....if all options are provided all colubrids can be kept the same.....

And....if a healthy snake can swallow it and husbandry is correct it will not regurge.......period.

jaleely · 10-08-12, 09:53 PM

Sorry, that's just false. A snake can swallow a meal that's too large for it, then regurgitate it back up, because it *is* too large. There could also be a folded rodent leg, or an abstrucction (when there isn't enough sapce, as in a large meal) that causes it to regurgitate. The same snake and meal can even be taken again at that time.

This is a factual thing that can and has been documented. Not really a point in arguing.

I kind of don't see the point in saying all cloubrids can be kept the same. You mean if you provide like, all kinds of conditions such as heat gradients and hides, and substrate, and moss, and just, everything? Even that isn't true. What about humidity, and all that? That's just weird to say *lol*

Over one third of snake species are labled under the same classification. All of those snakes should be kept the same according to you. If that were true, they would all live in the same part of the world in the same spot.

I think you just don't like thinking your advice is wrong. It's not wrong, in general, but it' wrong for that species. But, also, you are wrong about regurgitation *lol* sorry. Not an opinion, just a fact. please feel free to find documentation to support your theory. I'll read it.

Jlassiter · 10-08-12, 10:53 PM

Okay...I'm wrong....
That doesn't bother me.....

Thanks for your time....lol

Gregg M · 10-09-12, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jlassiter

Okay...I'm wrong....
That doesn't bother me.....

Thanks for your time....lol

If you can believe it or not, I can even be wrong sometimes. LOL.

Impressive King collection by the way John. You know your stuff there, that is for sure.

kingsnake1 · 10-09-12, 12:29 PM

John's point is that if you provide a habitat with a proper temp gradient, a proper humidity gradient, sufficient hiding spots (substrate or hides), virtually any snake will gravitate to the environment he needs at that particular time and will thrive. Most keepers provide little of that in their racks of terrariums.

Jlassiter · 10-09-12, 12:59 PM

Thanks Greg (kingsnake1), but Jaleely has it all figured out already....
She needs documentation to read instead of learning about the snakes right in front of her.

It's alright....those born during the Internet age learn that way I guess.....

I wonder how we all got along without it?

jaleely · 10-09-12, 02:31 PM

riight..cuz documentation would be inappropriate to learn from in what way exactly? lol it's not really an opinion based kind of thing, so asking you to back up your thoughts is pretty appropriate.

I kept on, because i just didn't like how you said it was good advice this person was given, then immediately said that any snake that was healthy would not regurgitate. That's a good general rule, and common sense, however there are sometimes extenuating circumstances.
In one post you say you don't know about colorubids, but then go on to give your generalized opinion anyway. That just gave me the impression you really didn't know what you were saying, but you just didn't like admitting that -so you were going to restate your opinion whether you had facts or not.

Is that what happened?

I just think lumping everything together is not really good sense. Lumping every regurgitation into the snake must be sick, lumping every classification into the same husbandry methods...seems uneducated.
It was quite a startling statement you made, actually, that even after a well respected and successful breeder of a particular species tells you exactly how to care for it, you continue to comment and insist that all similar snakes can be kept the same, even after it being pointed out to you that that type of snake only shares a classification-family, not even the same sub-family, Genus, or Species.
But, clearly i'm showing my ignorance by wanting you to use documentation, from books, or the magic internet, to back up why you think the way you do.
Obviously.

Really lame of me to be "born during the internet age" and actually require concise, intelligent statements of people rather than just rhetoric. It's not a philosophical situation. lol wutevs.
That's just the weirdest retort i've ever seen. lol

Jlassiter · 10-09-12, 02:41 PM

Okay.....I'm done.....lol

Gregg M · 10-09-12, 04:46 PM

I can say at this point, if you want information on hognose snakes, seek the advice of experienced hognose keepers. Would anyone here ask a gecko keeper for advice on varanids?

f you keep your hognose snake the way you would keep a king snake or corn, you are not going to be providing your hognose with what it needs. Sure, it will live, but it will most likely not thrive and you will most likely not be successful breeding them.

Jlassiter · 10-09-12, 05:19 PM

I guess you don't know how I keep my kingsnakes.....

But if I did keep them like the care sheets say to I agree with you 1000%!
But I don't....I provide enough options a garter, green rat, corn ,king, beauty, milk and hognose could thrive.......send me some and I will let you know how it goes....lol....j/k.

Gregg, like I said before I like what you are doing with this species, congrats.
It's just others need to know there is more than one way to do thing successfully.
Your way proves successful for sure.

Jlassiter · 10-09-12, 05:20 PM

Okay, now I'm done....
I'm like a moth to a flame, huh?.....lol

Gregg M · 10-09-12, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jlassiter

But if I did keep them like the care sheets say to I agree with you 1000%!

That is what I am talking about for the most part John. Good to see we are on the same page dude.

I looked at you care guide and agree, you can keep a wide variety of snakes in those conditions. However, I would keep the hog a bit hotter. Thats just me though.