Day/Night Cycle

[CDN_Blood]

Dropping temperatures at night is not about breeding. It's about giving the animals a more natural life in captivity and that's always been my approach. Breeding has never been on my mind with so many snakes out there already needing homes.

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by CDN_Blood

Dropping temperatures at night is not about breeding. It's about giving the animals a more natural life in captivity and that's always been my approach. Breeding has never been on my mind with so many snakes out there already needing homes.

imo,if you don't drop your temps for breeding/brumation,you stand a good chance of getting poor results

although dropping the temperatures to brumate,gives the snake a better chance of producing viable follicles and sperm,my temp drops are NOT all to do with breeding

i try and give my carpets as natural an existance possible,considering they are all kept in little wooden boxes

so i replicate the 4 seasons day and night,whenever possible

take my diamonds for instance...

over the period of 12 months,depending on which season it is,they will have temperature differences ranging from 55F to 90f (winter)

cheers shaun

[Wildside]

I'm just talking about the ambient day/night cycle here. It doesn't matter what part of the world you're in there is gonna be an ambient drop at night. No sun = less heat. I'm wondering if this may be healthier for a gravid female and her babies than going with the "Incubate the whole snake" theory.

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by Wildside

I'm just talking about the ambient day/night cycle here. It doesn't matter what part of the world you're in there is gonna be an ambient drop at night. No sun = less heat. I'm wondering if this may be healthier for a gravid female and her babies than going with the "Incubate the whole snake" theory.

re lights
i use 2.0 uvb natural daylight flurescent tubes on timers (length of time,according to the season),along with any natural light coming in the window

imo uvb is important to reptiles

cheers shaun

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by CDN_Blood

Dropping temperatures at night is not about breeding. It's about giving the animals a more natural life in captivity and that's always been my approach. Breeding has never been on my mind with so many snakes out there already needing homes.

It's ok. We all know keeping animals in confined spaces, no dirt, no predators, no real prey, no rainy season is ALL natural.

There's no point in worrying about a night drop every night as I think it could lead to an RI for no real reason. I've only ever dropped temps in all my years of keeping and never had an issue. I don't think it's necessary.

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

It's ok. We all know keeping animals in confined spaces, no dirt, no predators, no real prey, no rainy season is ALL natural.

There's no point in worrying about a night drop every night as I think it could lead to an RI for no real reason. I've only ever dropped temps in all my years of keeping and never had an issue. I don't think it's necessary.

i think you missed a word/words out in your 2nd last sentence Aaron or my fuddled brains missing something

i agree on there being NOTHING natural about keeping snakes in tanks

re RI's
imo thats a good point mate

i do have some carpets who started showing mild respiritory symptoms when given night time drops...

i just didn't drop the temps as low for those snakes

cheers shaun

[Wildside]

This is not a purposeful drop, just something that I noticed happens in the room. I haven't had problems with RI in about four years.

[shaunyboy]

your correct in sayin at night the ambient temps in a tank drops a little

i honestly don't think it makes all that much of a difference to the snake

cheers shaun

[Jlassiter]

Originally Posted by Wildside

It doesn't matter what species. What differences have you noticed? I'm very curious because my recent change in practice has put all of my animals on a higher level of thriving. Unfortunately I don't have enough snake breeding experience under my belt to be able to determine if this will effect my prospective outcome for the season.

What I provide is the highest thermal and humidity gradient possible...
If I could get 0% to 100% humidity and 50F to 100F temperature gradients I would.....

But with a large collection of over 150 snakes I must make do with what I have readily available and financially feasible. I have to mention I live in an area where it is very hot and very humid....South Texas. Arizona's 119F and dry has nothing on our 100F temps with 80+% humidity....lol

I cool my snake room to 70F to 74F with a window unit......This provides the cool temps cold blooded reptiles (our snakes) need to conserve energy. During the day it does okay in my WELL insulated snake room. It holds the temps below 80F in the day when it is 100F outside. At night the room temps hit 70F. I also provide a hot area with back heat (Cable). This hot area is typically less than 90F but I want it to be around 90F without heating the entire enclosure. This is the toughest thing to achieve. To achieve the best temperature gradient I use deep aspen. The aspen acts as insulation. It isolates the heat to the back of the enclosure and allows the cool air conditioned air to keep the temps cool on the other side of their enclosure.

Okay....what has this done for my snakes and for me as a snake keeper first...

Now I know when to feed instead of feeding every Sunday evening after the 6 o'clock news like most breeders do.....lol I know boas and pythons can be overfed but if kept correctly colubrids cannot. They will refuse prey when full. I feed my kings when they are on the cool side conserving.....

I have learned to understand why my snakes do what they do. They aren't just snakes sitting in a box that do nothing....Like I've seen my snakes act prior to refining my husbandry techniques over the past 20 years. They actually hunt for food at night. Hunt for mates during breeding season. Find the right temps to metabolize. Find the humidity when needed to shed or when they are dehydrating.

With this set up along with a humidity gradient it has been easier for me to get stubborn mexican and montane hatchling kings to feed. I have not seen these montane snakes "shutdown" for the winter like most do, but I do force a brumation on them for breeding purposes.

I've also seen my snakes grow to breeding size in as little as 18 months and no, this is not from power-feeding. It is from feeding them correctly as growing snake use caloric intake to grow and those small meals they eat are metabolized quickly. These young snakes WANT to eat twice and sometimes 3 times a week, typically every 3 days or so. Adult snakes eat larger prey that takes longer to digest and will only want to eat once a week give or take a few days here and there. They do not use all the caloric intake to grow. They use it to sustain.

In years past I've seen double clutches come easier, even when I'm not trying to double clutch a female. It's all about calories and how they use them at certain times in a year and throughout their life. If one sets up with the correct gradients they'll see this....
And...I have many kings that are in their teens, some are over 20 and one is over 30.
This is a reflection on thriving in captivity. I beleive most of the information that say powerfeeding and breeding snakes at a yound age will shorten their life span, stunt their growth and cause egg binding is false. If husbandry is correct none of this happens. These snakes know what they are doing and have been doing it long before we came along and took them out of the wild and made them captives. It is our job to provide them with all the possible options we can think of and let them choose.

Again...Most of my experience is with colubrids. But I don't see why options would not be benificial to any reptile. Letting them choose teaches us what to provide......

[Wildside]

Thank You so much John. Your post help me figure out what it is exactly that I'm trying to ask.

Would a gravid female who is able to conserve more energy because of a 10 degree ambient drop in the day/night cycle remain healthier than the ones who are kept at a constant? Is it possible that because of the conserved energy she could produce more babies and less slugs?

[Jlassiter]

Originally Posted by Wildside

Thank You so much John. Your post help me figure out what it is exactly that I'm trying to ask.

Would a gravid female who is able to conserve more energy because of a 10 degree ambient drop in the day/night cycle remain healthier than the ones who are kept at a constant? Is it possible that because of the conserved energy she could produce more babies and less slugs?

Actually if given the temperature gradient a gravid female will go where she knows is best for her eggs/babies.

A female producing follicles relies on calories to do so. So if fed heavier prior to ovulation the outcome is always better. Then...If a female that has been bred and surely is gravid starts refusing meals it should be offered smaller meals as those calories help with fertilization and overall health of the snake, her eggs or her babies.

Then the next topic is nesting...If provided a correct nest they will not hold onto their eggs (with colubrids) for a long time. Typically the caresheets say they will lay their eggs around 10 days after having their pre egg laying shed. If provided a correct nest they will lay them in less than 5. All the time being fed small meals to keep her healthy. Many keepers stop feeding a gravid female once she turns down her normal sized prey. Then they wait for weeks for her to shed then another 10 days or so to lay eggs...that's almost a month with no food while those eggs are taking a toll on her. So, alot of breeders have skinny snakes that try to lay eggs and get egg bound and/or lay slugs.....Many others know how to provide for a gravid snake and never have this problem.