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Old 07-22-12, 11:06 PM   #16
AjaMichelle
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Re: Sav Eating Her Own Eggs?

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Originally Posted by Gatorhunter1231 View Post
I think the cool have easily been laid there. Your basking temps are high enough they she should compeletly digest a lightly shelled egg. The water may be her comfort zone. Looks like she is dedicating there to. She needs more soil depth as you know and possiably more humidity judging by dedicating in the water. Is the top air tight? Ambient air temp needs to be around 80. Soil temp will hold near that and increase temps near basking spot. Variation will let her choose. May need mess with your soil also. Either more sand or dirt in some areas so she can find her perfect spot. Good luck.
To the contrary about egg digestion... I have been told that varanids are not capable of completely digesting their own leathery eggs. And her temps appear to be spot on. Basking spots of 130*F t0 150*F and a cooler area of 75*F to 80*F.

She's going to move into an enclosure with 2 feet of substrate shortly (I'm currently building it).

She only goes into the water for a quick rinse when she's covered in dirt from burrowing or when she needs to take a poop. She never just lies in it. Her ambient humidity is 70 to 80% throughout most of the enclosure and 60% near the basking spot.

Her enclosure is virtually air tight. I'm hit in the face with humidity and heat when I open it. It's like 95% sealed.

I increased her substrate to 18 inches in the interim while I finish her enclosure. I verified her substrate temps before adding more substrate and temperature ranged about 15 degrees F (measurements taken with Acurite probe)
--- 95*F at the entrance to the burrow
--- 90*F 6 to 8 inches down
--- 85*F 8 to 12 inches down
--- 85*F to 80*F from middle of enclosure to "cool" area

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Does anyone have an idea about how I should lay out the substrate in her next enclosure? Should I put different stuff in each area? I'm not sure what to do... I was originally going to use my soil/sand mix...
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Old 07-23-12, 03:58 AM   #17
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Re: Sav Eating Her Own Eggs?

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Originally Posted by AjaMichelle View Post
What about soil temps and soil depth? I need to change them?

I know I need more substrate and am moving her into a larger enclosure in the next week or two. She'll have 2 feet of substrate.

I already went through and did my best to find eggs. I didn't recover any.

basically yes... dunno what sort of soil your using at the moment possibly increase the ratio of sand to soil... that may do it...

id also be tempted to wack a big box in there full of some soil thats totally different to what your using at the minute.
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Old 07-23-12, 06:26 AM   #18
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Re: Sav Eating Her Own Eggs?

Hey Aja,
I wold have to say that your sav is not eating her eggs. She is laying them in the water dish. This is usually a sign that she is not finding a proper nest area to properly lay her eggs. Monitors will properly nest even infertile eggs when given the right nesting conditions.

Good news for you is the fact that she laid the eggs and did not retain them and the situation is 100% fixable. Even after you put 2 feet of substrate in the cage, you should still offer a nest box. Most of our varanids will spacifically pick a nest box over any other spot in the cage no matter how many other good options they have.

Hope this helps.
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Old 07-23-12, 08:49 AM   #19
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Re: Sav Eating Her Own Eggs?

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Originally Posted by AjaMichelle View Post
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Does anyone have an idea about how I should lay out the substrate in her next enclosure? Should I put different stuff in each area? I'm not sure what to do... I was originally going to use my soil/sand mix...

I used the same soil throughout, not sure if that helps.. Maybe a more experienced person can correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 07-23-12, 12:12 PM   #20
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Re: Sav Eating Her Own Eggs?

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Originally Posted by varanus_mad View Post
basically yes... dunno what sort of soil your using at the moment possibly increase the ratio of sand to soil... that may do it...

id also be tempted to wack a big box in there full of some soil thats totally different to what your using at the minute.
I'm using a mostly soil, sand mix with some bark chips and coconut fiber mixed in.

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Originally Posted by Gregg M View Post
Hey Aja,
I wold have to say that your sav is not eating her eggs. She is laying them in the water dish. This is usually a sign that she is not finding a proper nest area to properly lay her eggs. Monitors will properly nest even infertile eggs when given the right nesting conditions.

Good news for you is the fact that she laid the eggs and did not retain them and the situation is 100% fixable. Even after you put 2 feet of substrate in the cage, you should still offer a nest box. Most of our varanids will spacifically pick a nest box over any other spot in the cage no matter how many other good options they have.

Hope this helps.
Gregg
Thanks Gregg! That was very helpful! With what should I fill the nest box? Straight soil without anything else mixed in? Where should I put it in the enclosure? Where should I put the hole in the nest box? The temps should be nearer to 90*F right? How big should it be? Can I use a rubbermaid container (solid not opaque)?

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I used the same soil throughout, not sure if that helps.. Maybe a more experienced person can correct me if I am wrong.
You're using soil you dug up right?
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Old 07-23-12, 07:16 PM   #21
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Re: Sav Eating Her Own Eggs?

Your temps sound spot on. I was looking for that info to make a better assumption about whether she was eating the eggs. If she eats it then it will not look like an egg after. There might be shell pieces but not a whole egg that you can disect later. I had on a few occasions feed infertile ackie eggs to tristis and tristis eggs to ackies not to mention snake eggs which are basically the same. One egg is very dark and yucky like a prune. It was retained for some time and looked to be on the brink of rotting. Greg touched the most important part of it all which is the fact she didn't retain and go egg bound.
P.S sorry for previous post above. I answer from my phone and it automaticly plugs in words that it thinks I want.
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Old 07-23-12, 07:47 PM   #22
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Re: Sav Eating Her Own Eggs?

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You're using soil you dug up right?
Yes, from the creek bank out behind my house.

I would not recommend that to everyone, because I live in a very clean unspoiled area, and that creek is a protected aquifer, we drink that water without hesitation.

My soil is the sandy clay buildup that washes down from the hillside when it rains, it didn't even have any rocks in it..

When muddy water evaporates, it leaves that behind.

Great stuff.

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Old 07-25-12, 05:31 PM   #23
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Re: Sav Eating Her Own Eggs?

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I wold have to say that your sav is not eating her eggs. She is laying them in the water dish.
My money is on those eggs having gone through the digestive system of a monitor. They're way too stained, manky and shriveled (in the case of at least one egg) to have been simply laid in the water.
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Old 07-27-12, 04:25 PM   #24
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Re: Sav Eating Her Own Eggs?

Dave- you don't think they would have been better digested considering temps. I'm just basing this on feeding ackie eggs to tristis and visa versa. That nasty egg is super nasty but I had one croc egg that was brown looking since she laid it in a muddy area (first clutch) it wasn't shriveled like that egg though. Once again assumptions since I didn't see the eggs in question in person (setup, time lapse when eggs laid till found etc)
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Old 07-27-12, 05:23 PM   #25
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Re: Sav Eating Her Own Eggs?

I've seen monitor eggs that have gone through the digestive system of monitors with a 60C basking spot and they were intact, shrivelled and heavily stained, exactly like the shrivelled one in the photograph.
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Old 07-28-12, 08:53 PM   #26
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Re: Sav Eating Her Own Eggs?

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Originally Posted by Gatorhunter1231 View Post
If she eats it then it will not look like an egg after. There might be shell pieces but not a whole egg that you can disect later.
I've found quite a few reptile eggs in monitor feces and the shells tend to be more or less intact
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Old 07-28-12, 09:49 PM   #27
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Re: Sav Eating Her Own Eggs?

I am also curious as to how big and where in the cage everyone's egg boxes are, particularly for ackies. I am looking to purchase a trio later this year if possible, and it would be nice to not have to dig through the entire cage looking for the eggs, particularly since I intend to make the cage a palace..
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Old 07-29-12, 07:48 PM   #28
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Re: Sav Eating Her Own Eggs?

With ackies you are better off not using a nest box, but making the substrate itself suitable for nesting.
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Old 07-29-12, 09:28 PM   #29
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Re: Sav Eating Her Own Eggs?

Agree with dave. Its not that hard to find ackie eggs. The first time or two is but you will figure out that your female lays close to the same areas. Mine generally lay 13-18in down and 6in from the basking spot. The third and fourth time I pretty dug directly to the eggs in about 10mins
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Old 07-30-12, 06:17 PM   #30
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Re: Sav Eating Her Own Eggs?

Alright, thanks. I'm planning to go with a 6'x3' so I was a bit concerned about digging them up. Especially since I'm going to pile the cage high with branches, cork, rocks, etc. And yes, I was planning on making the whole cage suitable for nesting anyways, nest box or no nest box.
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