Burm/ball hybrid

[Slcburm]

That's what we need. A big *** snake that won't eat. Lol

[Snakefood]

Personally, I like BP's Because they are small (you know, for a python!!)

[KORBIN5895]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

I have encountered a handful of people who INSISTED they had a red-tailed boa x ball python cross that they bred themselves. Sometimes the only response I can give is....[after rolling eyes/raised eye brow] "So anyway..."

Haha! I am laughing so hard tears are running down my leg!

How much were they asking for it?

[StudentoReptile]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Personally, My feelings are this..... That abomination poses a threat to the true royals, since many states are banning giants, the moment giant BP's become common, it's entirely possible, or maybe even likely that they will modify the bans.

Come on people.. what exactly does this crossing accomplish?? the hobby is suffering already without giant Royals in the picture.

Although I'm not a fan of hybrids in general, and certainly not wild about this particular crossing...I'm relatively confident that PIJAC and the mainstream pet industry will help protect BPs. After all, that is a common petstore reptile at this point, and the big box companies like PETCO and PETsMART, as well as PIJAC, will fight tooth and nail to keep BPs available in petstores everywhere.

If we were talking about a burm x retic cross, or a Afrock x burm cross, then I would be more concerned since none of those are exactly mainstream "beginner" pets you find at the local pet shop.

Somewhat related, most of the more recent laws regarding large constrictors, specifically mention "and any hybrids of" said species. So technically, the burmball falls under the Injurious Wildlife list of the Lacey Act and cannot be transported across state lines because it involves the crossing of a Burmese python.

[StudentoReptile]

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

Haha! I am laughing so hard tears are running down my leg!

How much were they asking for it?

I forget. But its always fun to watch their face when I ask them "So you were able to cross an egg-laying snake with a snake that gives live birth? How did you do it?"

Oh the stories I could tell...BTW, anyone ever hear of a hognose boa? Had a fella swear up and down he had one of those. I pointed to a cage [this was at the LPS I worked at] with baby Hog Island boas and asked him if it was perhaps one of those. He said, nope, doesn't look anything like that. I then got really excited, and told him that I had never heard of a hognose boa before, much less seen one, and that he should bring it in for me to look it. Not too surprisingly, I never saw the guy again.

[Gregg M]

Originally Posted by CDN_Blood

I agree 100%. It's not secret that I think that any & all hybrids are abominations and it makes me *so* angry that anyone would even consider them, let alone create them. It's entirely unethical and unnatural. If it were up to me, creating hybrids would be criminalized and they existing hybrids would be destroyed in order to preserve original genetic codes.

So what about hybrids that do happen in the wild? It happen a lot. All over the world with many different species.
Most of todays species are the result of hybridization and intergrading according to scientific DNA research. Are hybrids an abomination or a fast foward button on evolution?

It can be considered entirely unethical and is 100% unnatural to keep snakes in cages in your home. It is not natural for them to be kept on news paper. It is not natural for them not to bask in natural sunlight. It is not natural for them to get fed white lab rodents. It is not natural for YOU to pick who breeds with who. When you breed reptiles in captivity, there is no natural selection. Natural selection is thrown out the window once you pair up your breeders. So, you are not preserving any original gentic codes. Besides that, hybrids have been produced for over 20 years and the gene pools are not destroyed and it is very easy to find pure animals.

What makes what you do any more ethical than someone who breeds two animals of a different species and creates some cool looking offspring? Nothing at all, so get off the high horse, Mr. "ethics". All this talk about ethics yet you are keeping (and breeding?) a carpet python morph that is as well known for its neurological defect as it is for its cool pattern. Way to go preserving those all important original genetic codes!! A bit hypocritical, dont you think?

Hybrids are not my favorite but there are quite a few that I do like. I woud also never tell someone who breeds them that they are criminals. To each their own. Whats great about this hobby is how diverse it is and hybrids just add to that diversity. Bring them on!!!

[StudentoReptile]

Well said, Gregg.

My only beef with hybrids is the possible reduction and muddying to pure bloodlines. I don't necessarily have a problem with the hybrid animal itself. But when I want a pure locality BCI, or alterna, or whatever, I don't want a mutt.

[Gregg M]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

But when I want a pure locality BCI, or alterna, or whatever, I don't want a mutt.

And they are easily obtainable. Many anti hybrid people try to play the "muddy blood" card all the time but have yet to prove their case. I too love my pure stuff and like you, if I am looking for something particular, I do not want a mutt. But if I saw a really crazy hybrid that I liked, I would buy it in a second.

Here is a male wild caught gaboon rhino viper hybrid.



And here are some F2 gaboon rhino viper hybrids. Yes the hybrids are very fertile.

[StudentoReptile]

Originally Posted by Gregg M

And they are easily obtainable.

For most cases, this is probably true. But I'm sure there are some cases where the species/subspecies/locality in question is not that easy to come by, yet hybrids are made anyway.

Again, like you, I don't think its fair to tell anyone not to do it anymore than its fair to tell someone its not okay to linebreed, or feed live in a separate container, or whatever. As with anything else in this hobby, there's people who obviously create hybrids responsibly and accurately represent them. And there's people who don't care and just toss things together (so to speak, I know there's a little more to making a hybrid than that).
----------------------------
One of my personal pet peeves (100% my own opinion, and not a judgment on what should or shouldn't be done) is ugly hybrids. I know you can never really tell what the offspring is going to look like, but you can kinda guess. And if it comes out and grows up to be butt-ugly, for the love of crap, don't produce anymore!

[snake man12]

Those pics are beautiful.

[jaleely]

I didn't think CDN_blood bred snakes...

As for the gaboon rhino viper hybrid, where did they find that thing? lol
I love, love, love gaboon vipers...i love their look all on their own. I'd like some more pics of that lil guy. The babies are kind of...not as pretty as a regular gaboon *lol*

[Gregg M]

Originally Posted by jaleely

I didn't think CDN_blood bred snakes...

As for the gaboon rhino viper hybrid, where did they find that thing? lol
I love, love, love gaboon vipers...i love their look all on their own. I'd like some more pics of that lil guy. The babies are kind of...not as pretty as a regular gaboon *lol*

He was wild caught in west Africa. Came in on an import from Ghana. He was an adult when he was imported. These wild caught hybrids come in pretty often. Wild caught female gaboons that were gravid at the time of import have dropped entire litters of hybrids as well.

As far as CDN_Blood not breeding, that is neither here nor there. I just found it funny that he says this....

Originally Posted by CDN_Blood

I agree 100%. It's not secret that I think that any & all hybrids are abominations and it makes me *so* angry that anyone would even consider them, let alone create them. It's entirely unethical and unnatural. If it were up to me, creating hybrids would be criminalized and they existing hybrids would be destroyed in order to preserve original genetic codes.

Yet is is fine for him to own a MORPH (not a subspecies) that carries a gene that give it a neurological disorder. Whats worse, creating a healthy good looking hybrid or perpetuating genetics that make your snakes wobble, cork screw, and flip on their backs?

[stevenrudge]

Originally Posted by Gregg M

And they are easily obtainable. Many anti hybrid people try to play the "muddy blood" card all the time but have yet to prove their case. I too love my pure stuff and like you, if I am looking for something particular, I do not want a mutt. But if I saw a really crazy hybrid that I liked, I would buy it in a second.

Here is a male wild caught gaboon rhino viper hybrid.



And here are some F2 gaboon rhino viper hybrids. Yes the hybrids are very fertile.

You could say that your both right,my main objection is that the way legislation is moving the future free movement of reps ( import/ export/ overland)is looking doubtful at best,and 10 -15 years in the future we do not want to be in the position of not being able to obtain pure true lines of captive species and not being able to obtain replacement W/C stock,in the way that the various Locals have come into play,and your point about natural hybridization,yes of course this happens but its not very common and these hybrids are not going to live in a confined gene poll are they,in their wild state their genes would naturally disperse back or might as you say from a new spp or local,this is un-proven,l like your response to certain problem morphs these are un-ethical and posse a bigger problem

[CDN_Blood]

Originally Posted by jaleely

I didn't think CDN_blood bred snakes...

I don't, but at some point I may breed one of my Rainbow boas to help encourage the move to smaller, legal boas in my own area since there don't seem to be any Rainbows around here and Boa constrictors are prohibited.

Is someone saying I breed snakes? That'd be just what we need - more misinformation from folks who don't know what they're talkin' about, lol

[Gregg M]

Originally Posted by stevenrudge

You could say that your both right,my main objection is that the way legislation is moving the future free movement of reps ( import/ export/ overland)is looking doubtful at best,and 10 -15 years in the future we do not want to be in the position of not being able to obtain pure true lines of captive species and not being able to obtain replacement W/C stock,in the way that the various Locals have come into play,and your point about natural hybridization,yes of course this happens but its not very common and these hybrids are not going to live in a confined gene poll are they,in their wild state their genes would naturally disperse back or might as you say from a new spp or local,this is un-proven,l like your response to certain problem morphs these are un-ethical and posse a bigger problem

Well thought out post and an actual good reponsed why you are not crazy about it.

Originally Posted by CDN_Blood

Is someone saying I breed snakes? That'd be just what we need - more misinformation from folks who don't know what they're talkin' about, lol

No one said you were breeding. I put the word breeding in question form because I did not know if you were ore not. Here is what I said so it does get twisted.

Originally Posted by Gregg M

What makes what you do any more ethical than someone who breeds two animals of a different species and creates some cool looking offspring? Nothing at all, so get off the high horse, Mr. "ethics". All this talk about ethics yet you are keeping (and breeding?) a carpet python morph that is as well known for its neurological defect as it is for its cool pattern. Way to go preserving those all important original genetic codes!! A bit hypocritical, dont you think?