Euthanasia

[DragonsEye]

As far as methods go, snapping their necks -- which Kevin mentioned doing -- if done correctly is pretty much instantaneous.

[Skumbo]

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

Well mice take less than 7 minutes to die in the freezer. Could've been the lack of oxygen too though. I have seen several things that have died in the winter.never seen any signs of thrashing about in the snow though.

People don't thrash much either but hypothermia is one not a painless way to die, I know someone who fell into a lake playing hockey and was rescued and said it was the most horribly painful experience ever, and he was shot twice while in the military (I know he has horrible luck)

basically it burns and is the equivalent of being on fire for a small amount of time, then you deal with the sensation of not being able to move and know you're freezing to death but you can't move anything (ever fall asleep on your arm so bad that it flops around for a few minutes when you wake up, it's like that but everything) at least that's how he explained it, he was in the hospital for days and was lucky to survive.


As for CO, there's a reason a lot of people die of this by accident. Know why you have a CO detector? because you could be watching TV, get sleepy, pass out on the couch, and die because really you were being slowly poisoned by CO. (it has happened)

Co2 is different, this is what makes you feel like you're drowning without the water in a sense of "you need to breath but cant" Co2 is what you expire when breathing, so putting a rat in a Tupperware container will probably cause a good deal of discomfort before it dies.

here's a little slideshow explaining a study done on distress of lab rats during CO2 exposure/euthanasia which shows CO2 is painful/distressful to rats.

Pain and distress during CO2 euthanasia

(its very "high school level" but it shows facts to a study i cant seem to find full text on, so it works at least) I'd stick to CO, its killed humans without them knowing/etc.. and rats tend to react the same way.



CO and breaking neck (that's pretty much instantaneous) would be the most "humane", CO being more ideal as neck breaking has a bit of a chance of not working perfectly the firs time, which would just.. suck a lot.

[RandyRhoads]

Where do you find and collect CO with other by products of combustion......and how would you administer it...

[KORBIN5895]

@skumbo.
I believe there would be a huge difference between being dropped into a frozen lake and slowly losing body heat through freezing temperature. Stick your hand into a frozen lake then spend 10 minuets out side without a coat it freezing weather.

Secondly what most people use to kill rodents is co2 or dry ice ( Dry ice, sometimes referred to as "Cardice" or as "card ice" (chiefly British English), is the solid form of carbon dioxide.) not carbon monoxide.

[insignia100]

KORBIN5895, I would encourage you to alter your euthanasia methods to be more humane. Cervical dislocation is acceptable, but putting animals in a tupperware or sealed bucket is in no way humane. If you don't believe me, try breathing into a paper bag for 3 minutes and tell me you don't feel uncomfortable/distressed. Yes, they produce their own CO2, but it is much, MUCH more prolonged than having the oxygen purged from the CO2 chamber using compressed CO2 or even dry ice. Until the mice lose consciousness they are suffering. We are using these animals as food, and the LEAST we can do for them is insure a painless and stress free euthanasia.

[Skumbo]

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

@skumbo.
I believe there would be a huge difference between being dropped into a frozen lake and slowly losing body heat through freezing temperature. Stick your hand into a frozen lake then spend 10 minutes out side without a coat it freezing weather.

Secondly what most people use to kill rodents is co2 or dry ice ( Dry ice, sometimes referred to as "Cardice" or as "card ice" (chiefly British English), is the solid form of carbon dioxide.) not carbon monoxide.

I've had hypothermia before, i've also jumped into freezing water (not an ice covered lake, but it was about 40 degrees) doing a flip off a bridge (im a bit wonky in the head) and I do winter hiking (usually bon cliff trail, its about 38 miles and takes 3 days in the winter over 11 peaks), I've spent nights where it drops from 40 during the peak of the day to -10 at night, and I can tell you, if it slowly kept getting colder until I died, i'd rather suffocate. Cold burns and cold hurts. a lot. I've also been outside many times in negative weather without a shirt on, and it always burns more than anything.
I've done a lot of weird crap in my life. There was an old (stupid) contest we used to do as kids when snow came, whoever could make naked snow angels (well... underwear on) the longest wins, as you can imagine, people got hypothermia and frostbite a few times before the adults figured out what we were doing.
My training partners did a similar thing as well (when i trained in MMA) when it reached 0F out, we'd all go for shirtless/barefoot run to initiate winter so to speak.

I wasn't claiming to know what people use for killing rodents, just my understanding of the chemistry and physiological affects of both Co and Co2 on organisms! None of us can "know" what its like to die from anything, since we're all here, arent we?

personally I wont ever breed my own "feeders" i get far too attached to animals (hell, i have a pet rat). Now, buying an already humanely euthanized feeder mouse/rat from my local pet store (good prices too) is easier for me anyway.

I tend to get wordy, so sorry bout that

[Strutter769]

I don't think I specified... I AM using CO2. In fact, I spent a good few hours today finding the fittings I need to regulate the flow from the CO2 tank to the chamber. NOT as easy as I thought it would be! (Or cheap). I'll post some pics tomorrow when it's complete.

[RandyRhoads]

Or you could use a mouse trap.... or do all of us find that cruel and restrain from setting mice traps...

[Skumbo]

I like the idea of a quick burst of NO to put them to sleep, i know when ive gone under the knife i counted down from 10 like "10.. 9... ZZZ" if there are any concerns with them suffering from CO or CO2 or liquid taco flavor aerosol cans, they wont notice if they're knocked out with NO, though that would be more expensive I'm sure.

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

Or you could use a mouse trap.... or do all of us find that cruel and restrain from setting mice traps...

Yes, I do. I set live traps.


edit: I convinced my family to set live traps at my parents place in Massachusetts, we don't have any mice issues here, its too damn cold.

[beardeds4life]

what is NO? CO?

[insignia100]

NO - nitrous oxide (i.e. the nitrous used for cars) Edit: Nitrous oxide is N2O, not NO.
CO - carbon monoxide

[RandyRhoads]

N2O is not expensive if you buy it online or a from a culinary store. And i've never seen it on animals, so I don't know, but N2O really doesn't put you to sleep, I'd say that was another drug they gave you... Being a general anesthetic it will take away they're physical feelings all together.


And what do you do with them when they're caught in your traps?

[insignia100]

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

N2O is not expensive if you buy it online or a from a culinary store. And i've never seen it on animals, so I don't know, but N2O really doesn't put you to sleep, I'd say that was another drug they gave you... Being a general anesthetic it will take away they're physical feelings all together.


And what do you do with them when they're caught in your traps?

N2O is an anesthetic gas. It will induce anesthesia (i.e. put you to sleep).

[RandyRhoads]

Really? Nitric oxide is an anesthetic? Actually no, NO is an antianginal... N2O is an anesthetic...

[insignia100]

Corrected my mistake (always got those suffixes wrong in chemistry). NO is a very biologically important vasodilator, however.