Caging discussion

[Reptilians]

eh, the way i see it is...snakes aren't really social creatures as in they don't need talk with or hang out with another snake to keep them happy, so there is no reason to house them together. i don't really believe that two snakes that grew up together and have been together their whole lives will really miss each other if one were to have its own place.
So really the only reason to house two snakes together is for cost effect and space-which both can easily be fixed.

[Lankyrob]

I know of people that keep snakes together and have had no issues whatsoever, i also TOTALLY agree that they are YOUR snakes and you can pretty much do what you like with them, we are all adults and make our own choices.

As stated in the other thread, you find a regurge or a dodgy looking poo and you wont know which one did it, if one gets ill you have to treat both as it may be impossible to know which one it is, and/or the infection will spread to the other.

I did keep corns together for a while, some said it shouldnt happen, others said it was fine and my days of research and trawling the 'net gave a 60/40 split leaning toward it being ok.

After a couple of months of no apparent issues one of them turned on the other (they were identical ages and sizes and had been together pretty much from hatching), he chased him, harassed him and just wouldnt let him rest so i separated them and wouldnt ever bother trying it in the future.

[Nektu]

Originally Posted by reptile65

Just out of curiosity, what lizards do you keep together?

My spiny and chukwala are housed together. Both female. Will "cuddle" under the heat lamp.

Damion, never said it was "kewl" to keep them together, but it works on multiple levels.

[infernalis]

The only snakes I ever house together are my garter snakes, they are species that spend a great deal of time in groups out in the wild. It is very common to find them on multiples while herping, they mass den over the winter and even participate in massive breeding "orgies" called breeding balls when they mate.

To avoid any problems, I raise them together and separate them for feedings.

all of my other snakes are housed solo.

[stephanbakir]

Besides garters, no other snake comes to mind, Lots of lizards however can be described as social.

[EvaS]

I keep my gophers together.Ive not had any problems so far.I pull one out for feeding in a bin, the other stays in the enclosure.
I used to house a pair of corns together as well.
When I go out "herping" I often find more then one snake under something.Mainly garters or ringnecks.Im willing to bet even ball pythons occasionally den up together if its a prime spot.
Not that Im saying it should be done.But Im willing to risk it with the colubrids a bit more then the boas or pythons.I couldnt even tell you why.

[marvelfreak]

Originally Posted by Nektu

It was some what brought up in another thread about why you shouldn't keep the same kind of snakes of the same sex in the same enclosure. But why not? Discuss here what your thoughts about this are.

I keep my ball python males together.

The reason you shouldn't do this is, because when they get breeding age they can turn on each other. Males will become very aggressive towards other males when breeding season comes around.

[citysnakes]

cuddling is a sign of competition. competition is a source of stress. constant stress caused by constant competition with a cagemate will lead to illness. an educated, responsible keeper will house animals separately to prevent unnecessary stress and illness.

social animals or not, a captive environment can never match the same dynamic as nature and a cagemate will always be a source of stress to a captive reptile.

to me, Rob's 60/40 split just represents the irresponsibility of many reptile keepers out there. get educated and give these animals the quality of life that they deserve.

my 0.02

[Nektu]

Originally Posted by marvelfreak

The reason you shouldn't do this is, because when they get breeding age they can turn on each other. Males will become very aggressive towards other males when breeding season comes around.

Like with other animals? Where males will "challenge" one another and usually the strongest more dominant one will end up breeding with the female? Because that is what you are describing.

@city, I can't help but feel as if you are calling me an irresponsible keeper.

Anyhow, I've been doing research while at work to find out what other breeders have to say about keeping ball pythons together and have decided to build a rack system of my own where they can be kept separately yet comfortably.

[Damion930]

Oh I know you didn't say it was because its kewl but that or because people don't have the room and want to save space is usualy the reason people give for wanting to house together ther just isn't a valid reason to do so imo.

[TeaNinja]

Originally Posted by Nektu

Like with other animals? Where males will "challenge" one another and usually the strongest more dominant one will end up breeding with the female? Because that is what you are describing.

@city, I can't help but feel as if you are calling me an irresponsible keeper.

Anyhow, I've been doing research while at work to find out what other breeders have to say about keeping ball pythons together and have decided to build a rack system of my own where they can be kept separately yet comfortably.

i don't know if it matters that a female is actually on hand. once they mature they might just get pissed that another male is near them.

and good call, ball pythons probably love racks.

[Ch^4]

Originally Posted by mykee

Stress.
Illness.
Cannibalism.
Nice and short.
I've wasted way too many words over the last 10 years trying to convince people to seperate their ball pythons.
You'll end up doing what you want regardless of the compelling reasons not to.

x2

Originally Posted by citysnakes

cuddling is a sign of competition. competition is a source of stress. constant stress caused by constant competition with a cagemate will lead to illness. an educated, responsible keeper will house animals separately to prevent unnecessary stress and illness.

social animals or not, a captive environment can never match the same dynamic as nature and a cagemate will always be a source of stress to a captive reptile.

to me, Rob's 60/40 split just represents the irresponsibility of many reptile keepers out there. get educated and give these animals the quality of life that they deserve.

my 0.02

x2

[Lankyrob]

Originally Posted by Nektu

Like with other animals? Where males will "challenge" one another and usually the strongest more dominant one will end up breeding with the female? Because that is what you are describing.

@city, I can't help but feel as if you are calling me an irresponsible keeper.

Anyhow, I've been doing research while at work to find out what other breeders have to say about keeping ball pythons together and have decided to build a rack system of my own where they can be kept separately yet comfortably.

Just wanted to say "Kudos" to you for listening, researching and making changes to help the health and wellbeing of your snakes. The easy route is to dig your heels in and not listen, it takes a big person to make the changes (and to state that you are doing so publicly).

[mykee]

"cuddling is a sign of competition. competition is a source of stress. constant stress caused by constant competition with a cagemate will lead to illness. an educated, responsible keeper will house animals separately to prevent unnecessary stress and illness."

I could not have said that any better myself.
Bravo Sir.