My BP hates me! - Page 2

vendettaseve · 03-19-11, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clmclark

I love how you assume I'm ignorant and didn't do any research. At what point did I indicate that I was looking for a dog replacement, best friend of critter to pal around with? Other than teasing in the title to the thread I don't see where I've personified her at all. Mentioned flat out that I'm aware she's an animal. Not a person or "trainable" creature. Simply trying to get her less stressed so she's not striking at me. I've bred, trained, showed and owned dogs my whole life but gosh, thanks for pointing out the obvious. lol. My family had a BP before so this isn't my first rodeo. This snake is much younger and the one we had before never showed signs that he had a problem with being handled. You can read until you go blind but when you learn the most from experiencing. Thats the point I'm at now. I'm assuming you didn't learn how to drive simply by reading the manual.

No talking back to they Mykee.

I hope your problem improves. As many have said Im sure with some time your snake will identify you as not being a threat and relax a bit more. As I hope is the case with my own when I get them.

Damion930 · 03-19-11, 10:40 PM

Every creature that is capable of forming habits and responding to stimulus is "trainable" using Skinner and Pavlovian psychology the trainable abilitys are limited to the response given for specific stimuli.

Damion930 · 03-19-11, 11:16 PM

Id fully agree with kenchenzo exept you seem to have a rather skittish snake. Citys advice is sound allow the snake to settle and grow out of its natural skittish young behavior becoming more accustom to your presence in its environment through feeding and water changes and cage cleaning limiting the stress brought on by handeling. Aaron S is ofcourse right that it may never change. Let your snake settle then work on weather or not you can hold it. Best of luck

emilybier · 03-19-11, 11:34 PM

There are more reasons for wanting a calm snake than "palling around". He mentioned that both he and the snake are skittish around each other and being able to keep things stress free enough to take it out for cleanings or treatments can be important for some people, especially when it is a snake that has proven to be more handleable than others. That reaction would be a little more appropriate for an aggressive, delicate, or potentially dangerous species, and I would have agreed.

Like Damion and others, I would advise to let it settle, get a little bigger. The snake hook is a brilliant idea. She may come around, give her time!

Damion930 · 03-19-11, 11:53 PM

I can agree with that. I think in this case a routine of limited handeling during cleaning and treatments would help build confidence in the handeler and comfort in the snake. I think the point that everyone is trying to get across is that you can't force it and doing so could cause more harm than good and he is going to need to learn to be more confident and exept he may be bit. Mabey even setting a scheduled holding time once a week or every two could be in order this would allow time to build confidence for each upcoming event.

clmclark · 03-20-11, 09:52 AM

I appreciate almost everyone's comments. Thank you for being there for the newbie and being respectful, again- most of you.

I truly love this forum and that there is a source for help or simply support when needed.
I have the answers I need so again thank you so much. Was simply looking for some input so that I am able to have a less stressed snake. I am in no rush to handle her on a regular basis for "entertainment" purposes, if I do at all. Simply looking to be able to move her to feed, clean and water. I will look into getting a hook to use while I gain my own confidence with her and allow her to grow up and settle in a bit more.
Main concern is that she eats. If I am trying to move her to feed and she's striking, then I know she is stressed- therefore less likely to eat. For the most part I only go in there when she's in her humitdy box. I tidy up, and clean/refresh her water then. I clean and replace the moss while she's feeding so she goes into a clean box. Just the feeding issue. Thanks again guys!

mykee · 03-20-11, 11:17 AM

Quote:

"If I am trying to move her to feed and she's striking, then I know she is stressed- therefore less likely to eat."

Wrong.
A "strikey' ball python in my experiences, make for GREAT eaters. I prefer my balls to hate me and love food and not the other way around.

mykee · 03-20-11, 11:25 AM

Quote:

"Every creature that is capable of forming habits and responding to stimulus is "trainable" using Skinner and Pavlovian psychology the trainable abilitys are limited to the response given for specific stimuli. "

Lol...snake psychology...
I prefer hard facts:
A snakes brain is very similar to a bird's brain but the snakes brain lacks the enlarged cerebral hemispheres found in birds and mammals. The cerebral hemispheres are the part of the brain which contains the ability to learn. With the absence of the cerebral hemispheres, it is correct to say that snakes aren't very intelligent.

infernalis · 03-20-11, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damion930

Every creature that is capable of forming habits and responding to stimulus is "trainable" using Skinner and Pavlovian psychology the trainable abilitys are limited to the response given for specific stimuli.

No disrespect, but I have a great rebuttal I simply must post.

There are many cases of snakes getting burned on unprotected heat sources, multiple times, not just once.

If that creature was capable of learning from the pain stimuli, then why on earth would it continue to burn itself?

Think about it, if I touched you with a soldering iron once, would you allow me to do it again?

I personally own snakes that have tried to escape periodically for years, if they could "comprehend" they would have gave up long ago because they would have "learned" that the cage has no way out.

These creatures have very rudimentary brains, they are genetically pre-programmed with necessary instincts.

However one cannot deny basic curiosity, however that is also the survival instinct that was pre-programmed via DNA as they cannot flee a predator unless they look to see if it is in fact a predator.

Reptile_Reptile · 03-20-11, 12:24 PM

Quote:

they cannot flee a predator unless they look to see if it is in fact a predator.

hell i bet most snakes wouldnt even run ive seen quite a few snakes just sit there and get taken out.

infernalis · 03-20-11, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reptile_Reptile

hell i bet most snakes wouldnt even run ive seen quite a few snakes just sit there and get taken out.

Yep, now there is a sign of "intelligence" eh

Reptile_Reptile · 03-20-11, 12:40 PM

i dont think you can gauge a snake in intelligence because they run off instinct. plus they seem stupid to me they are just majestic ^_^

Damion930 · 03-20-11, 12:54 PM

Yeah ill agree after I posted that I thought to myself what actual habits do any of my snakes have. They truly seem to be creatures of action and reaction they respond to direct stimuli rather than any kind of learned response. If at all possible it would probably take a considerable amount of time exposed to the stimulus to acheve a conditioned response. Now you have me very curious see my retic appears to favor me over others but im wondering is it recognition or is he somehow responding to my demeanor...the vibe I give off. Does anyone have an example of what seems to be a learned response to outside stimulus. Oh and very good point with the lamps Wayne.

citysnakes · 03-20-11, 02:36 PM

on feeding night, after the lights go out and the snake room has been pre-scented with frozen, thawing rodents, most of my ball pythons are seen in the striking position at the front of their tub awaiting their meals.

that seems like a conditioned response to me so i would assume that ball pythons have some capacity for learning.

citysnakes · 03-20-11, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reptile_Reptile

hell i bet most snakes wouldnt even run ive seen quite a few snakes just sit there and get taken out.

i would assume that animals that rely heavily on camouflage or crypsis rarely run from a predator as doing so would completely contradict the evolution of such a defense and therefore a snake's intelligence cannot be gauged due to a behaviour that you may not completely understand.