Very rare piebald caught in the wild

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by NennaMeerkat

Just cause I am new to breeding terms in general...what does F4 ect. mean?

Number of generations of inbreeding...


Filial: 1. In genetics, the first generation that results from the crossing of two parental lines, as the filial generation. 2. In general, pertaining to the relationship of children, both sons and daughters, to their parents. From the Latin filialis, from filius (son) and filia (daughter).

F5 means 5 generations of inbreeding. (The F is defined above)

[NennaMeerkat]

Ah gotcha okay then Thanks for clearing that up.

[Ch^4]

Originally Posted by infernalis

The Buckeye Herps Blog: Melanistic Garters of Ohio


My wife is from Toledo, next time we drive out to visit, I'm going herping.

Her brother recently purchased a "fixer upper" house out in the dairy country behind the automobile factories, He is constantly telling us of the black snakes he sees.

Thanks for the link! That sounds fun...the wife visits the family, and you look for new additions to the family! (Unless your herping is catch and release.)

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by Ch^4

Thanks for the link! That sounds fun...the wife visits the family, and you look for new additions to the family! (Unless your herping is catch and release.)

There is so many of them that I plan on bringing home a pair or a trio.

This population is so big that they get run over by cars, killed by homeowners who are afraid of them, hit by mowers, eyc...

A couple snakes will hardly make a difference.

[Ch^4]

Very true...And with you, they'll likely enjoy a longer and healthier life (as opposed to facing predators, cars, and people).

[Freebody]

that pied looks so frickin sweet, i love the color of the pattern on it as well, looks green. thats up their with my fav garter, maybe top 2 or 3, thx for sharing

[serpentshideawa]

something like fourth generation i think dont quote me on that though

[edens]

sheesh i feel like i will never learn! lol what are piebald? is that a breed of snake all on its own? or can that be refered to different breeds...... cus i looked at the post of someone else and it looked nothing like your pic... also is there a place to look up the different breeds of pythons and other snakes? thanks!

[Lankyrob]

Pie bald are any snake that has basically totally white scales but with patches of perfect patterning on the body.

[infernalis]

This snake raised a funny conversation elsewhere.. Thought I would share it here.

A little background first to put this in proper context. "Mike" catches endangered shorthead garter snakes and feeds them to regal ringnecks (Snake eaters) simply because he lives in about the only area these little garter snakes can still be found.

on to the thread..

Originally Posted by post 1

Any news about the Piebald Garter found back in May? Would love to see an update and perhaps offspring?

Originally Posted by post 2 Mike

Yeah I bet that snake was either released or confiscated a long time ago.

Originally Posted by 3 Jeff a breeder I know

Actually Mike she is in the possession of a breeder and he hopes to make some hets this spring

Originally Posted by 4 Mike

Pretty sure that's against the law Jeff...

Originally Posted by 5 My turn to post

Coming from someone who FEEDS shorthead garters to other snakes, the hypocrisy of your "concern" amuses me Mike

I got some KUDOS emails from my statement..

[stephanbakir]

Originally Posted by NennaMeerkat

You never know CH they could just get REALLY REALLY REALLY lucky and get it in what 3 generations of the breeders family? Sort of a family tradition to get another of these guys.

If the piebald was male it would increase the breeders chance at getting pied offspring wouldnt it?

A male can breed with more then 1 female so assuming he gets lucky with some het pied female babies and picks them out to breed with the male hes golden?

My understanding of breeding garters involves 1 female and 6+ males. Will the female accept a male if there is no competition?

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by stephanbakir

My understanding of breeding garters involves 1 female and 6+ males. Will the female accept a male if there is no competition?

Yes, the females will be receptive if only one male is presented.

[mistersprinkles]

Ugh.
Seeing this picture just made me realize that the 'sick, weird' snake I found when I was little was a piebald.

I found either a dekay's, ribbon, or garter under a rock like this once when I was a little kid but I though it must be diseased and ignored it. I saw a leucistic something or other once too but it was moving too fast for me to id or catch it. I spent about 2 hours a day in a field for the first 15 years of my life.

Sigh...

[sickvenom]

wayne, why would the garter be illegal?

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by sickvenom

Wayne, why would the garter be illegal?

A common misconception that requires just a bit of a history lesson to understand.

Not so many years ago it was a common practice for pet stores and wholesalers to gather herps in massive quantities in the early spring when they were all coming out of brumation.

Turtles, garter snakes, ribbon snakes, water snakes, toads and salamanders were getting wiped out by greedy merchants with no regard for the welfare of any species.

Bullfrogs were gathered up during breeding cycles and their hind legs chopped off for "gourmet food" the still living frog was then just discarded in the trash to die slowly & turtles were slaughtered for turtle soup.

Many states passed legislation forbidding the gathering of native herps, (can't say I blame them) that was intended to end that madness, to simplify paperwork the laws were written that it was illegal to gather any and all reptiles & amphibians, the laws were targeting the money grubbers.

So realistically if someone encountered a forest ranger with a bug up his arse, the ranger could exploit (enforce) the written laws.

However, think about this, every moron that chases down little colubrids and chops them up with a shovel, lawn mower or hoe should be prosocuted under these laws, and it never happens.