Looking for 3rd snake! - Page 2

Will0W783 · 10-14-09, 09:23 AM

Lol. Snakes are addicting. Plain and simple, they are like potato chips- you can't have just one. I was exactly like you when I started out. I got a BP and had him for a year thinking he'd be my one and only snake, but when my fiance decided he wanted a snake of his own, I fell in love with a gorgeous Pueblan milk and got my second. Then he wanted another, and I wanted another, and so on. Once we had 10 snakes in the house, we decided we would like to think about setting up for breeding them. We wont' be breeding for probably another 2-3 years, as I want to get more experience with the animals I've gotten over the last year before I think of putting anyone through the stress of cycling and breeding. I am very lucky my fiance likes snakes as well, and puts up with me bringing new ones home all the time, although I have decided I really can't get any more for at least a year or two. I'm really not all too sure on the growth rate of womas and Hogg island boas or Dumeril's for that matter as we've only had our Dumerils for about 6 months, and he's grown maybe 6 inches in that time. He is about 4 feet long and 3 inches thick. My womas I've only had for a month, and they are just 4 months old, but I dont' think they are particularly fast growers. I think with any snake it will double in size the first year, then begin to slow down. Most boids (pythons and boas) are full-grown in 3-4 years. But at any rate, you would probably be safe with any of those choices of snakes, as long as you get a baby. Babies of any kind of snake, save for ball pythons, do tend to be nippier though, as it is a built-in defense mechanism to strike at stuff to protect oneself. As they grow they gain confidence and calm down. That being said, my woma babies are fine- I use a little hook to get them out so they dont' get defensive, but once they are out they are sweet, inquisitive little things. The Dumeril's was already at least a yearling when we got him and he is very calm. Although he is a bit food-aggressive- so I use a hook for him too. He wants to eat all the time..lol.

BP_okay · 10-16-09, 12:54 AM

Potato chips..yep...I would agree. When you have 2 addicts in the house it does make it worse huh? Well, if you ever start breeding womas, I might be a customer, b/c I think at some point in my future, I plan on breeding those guys. They are sooo striking.

It really is a toss up isn't it. Babies vs. Yearlings. I appreciate the advice on what you do know about the growth rates. My corn was 1 and my boa was 4 yrs when I got them, so I have never experienced a juvenile. I never would have dreamed of using a hook with a baby, but a great tip that makes perfect sense nonetheless.I think 6 months would probably be about right for any of those kinds of snakes regarding growth, but I suppose the nippiness will be worth it in the end, b/c is kinda neat to be with your animal it's whole life

Now just to decide!

Martin Hunter · 10-16-09, 01:13 AM

I've got a pair of Pastel Colombians that just had their 3-month birthdays and they're not nippy at all. In fact, they've never even gotten upset at me once. So it's not a hard and fast rule that babies are nippy; you can be lucky.

Will0W783 · 10-16-09, 10:40 AM

That's very true Martin. Colombian boas are known for their generally docile nature though, as are ball pythons. My baby balls do not bite at me; they just want to hide their heads. My yearling jungle/jag carpet is quite docile, but he was worked with a lot before I got him and I do hold him often still. My baby womas are pretty good- they will defend their cage, but once I hook them and pick them out they are fine. Once you decide on your species of choice, it might not be a bad idea to go to the breeder if possible and select an animal so you can see them all and interact with them. A reptile show would be an ideal situation as you will be able to see and handle many different species from different breeders.

BP_okay · 10-20-09, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Hunter

I've got a pair of Pastel Colombians that just had their 3-month birthdays and they're not nippy at all. In fact, they've never even gotten upset at me once. So it's not a hard and fast rule that babies are nippy; you can be lucky.

That's good to know...I guess all of them have their own little personalities. You sure did get lucky. Congrats on the babies :-)

Willow, it's funny you mention that, b/c I have planned a trip to the Las Vegas Reptile show during December. It's going to be my B-day celebration. Like you said, it will be a great way to size up the snakes and the breeders. I AM SOOO excited about this show...it's supposed to be huge!

Will0W783 · 10-20-09, 08:46 PM

Cool! Big shows are always a blast. You'll have so much fun; just be careful- it's easy to say you're only going to get one snake and leave with 3 or 4. Prices are so low and there are so many beautiful animals.

BP_okay · 10-22-09, 12:00 AM

Well, I will have my Dad to answer to if that happens...not something that would fun to explain to him. But you are right, if I had my own place, I would definitely be in trouble after a visit to a reptile show. I have trouble at the petstore, when I grab substrate, and I would never buy a snake from there. I have never been to a show b4...would it be unwise to purchase a specific snake from the breeder at the show and have them ship it to you after you get home?

Good 'N Plenty · 10-22-09, 10:29 AM

Some sellers will agree to that, I've also run in to some who havn't, or who will for a bit extra (for time/care/food) between the show and the agreed shipping date.
On the other hand, I've also had the good fortune to have a seller who held onto a snake for me for 3 weeks for no extra charge (had to put 1/2 cost down as "just in case" deposit) until I returned from vacation (left day after show) and was able to ensure the animal received proper care.

Honestly, if you strike up a friendly conversation with the seller and chat them up for a while (time permitting) you will find that most people in the business are genuinely interested in the well-being of the animals they sell, and if the best way to ensure it's safety is to ship it to you later, it's usually not a problem.

BP_okay · 10-22-09, 09:53 PM

Thx alot for the info. I am so new to this herp show thing. I think I will go into full on mania when surrounded by so many reptiles.
Okay, so if the seller does agree to holding onto the animal...do you think I am taking a risk, by giving them $ and not walking out w/ the snake. I guess it's like buying online, so I suppose 90% of them are on the up and up. Any thoughts...? Also, if I do buy the snake at the show...how do I get it home. I have to fly back from Vegas to Dallas. I supposed like you did..during your vacation and all.

Chu'Wuti · 10-23-09, 02:20 AM

BP_okay, as you're planning on attending the herp show, check out the list of vendors online for the type of snake(s) you're thinking about buying. Write down the vendors who have those snakes, then check them out on the Board of Inquiry before you go to the show. That way you'll know who has a good reputation and who has a bad one--who's a safe seller & who isn't!

I was lucky on my last purchase that the herp show was near my house. I could easily check out the sellers before I bought anything even though I didn't check the vendor list before the show. Next time, though, I'll check ahead of time and have the "good" list in my pocket to remind me!

Will0W783 · 10-23-09, 08:17 AM

Excellent advice Sandy! I made the mistake once of buying from a vendor at a show that I was not previously aware of- it didn't end well for me. It was a Spilotes, and he died the very next day and it took me a month to get my money back. Fortunately I had paid with Paypal at the show so I had a bit more clout to work with. Now I have a select number of vendors I will deal with- I will check out new guys, but I will only buy from them if the animal is something I've never seen elsewhere or an incredible deal and passes my rigorous examination. If someone has a non-venomous snake in a container, and won't let you take it out to examine it and see its temperament, it's best not to deal with them IMHO.
BP_OKay- here is my basic checklist of things to thoroughly examine on any animal before purchase. Not a foolproof thing, as snakes can hide illness well, but it lowers risk:

1. check over the animal's skin to look for signs of retained shed. If you see any, check the extent. A tiny little piece is not the end-all, but several chunks or large pieces of retained shed mean the animal was not being kept in ideal conditions and you're best to avoid it.

2. Look at the eyes. Unless the animal is in shed (easy to tell) they should be bright and clear.

3. Look at the nostrils and listen to the breathing. The nostrils should be clear and the breathing quiet. I have a few snakes that have a very slight whistle when excited, but a sick snake will wheeze, whistle loudly, pop, click, and/or open its mouth when breathing. If you see any of those, don't buy it.

4. Look at the vent (cloaca). It should be closed all the way, unless the animal is peeing/pooping/musking on you..lol. It should be clear and show no signs of discharge. This is something I didn't check on the Spilotes that died on me- I ALWAYS check it now, carefully.

5. Feel along the sides of the animal's back half of the body. It should be firm and smooth. Obviously swelling or lumps can indicate constipation/impaction. If the animal is gravid the seller will know and tell you, but that's probably unlikely.

6. Let the animal glide around in your hands and note its movements. It should be able to move smoothly and not show signs of uncoordination. The exception being some color morphs of BPs and carpets which often have neurological problems- spider and bumblebee BPs, and jaguar carpets.

* A few other things to note- go on Youtube and familiarize yourself with what a respiratory infection and IBD look like in snakes. There are some very good videos on there. I went to a show once and saw a baby red-tail that looked very much to have IBD. It was stargazing and twisting itself all around, and it was in a case with a bunch of other babies. I did not buy anything from that seller, and have never bought anything from them since, and I also did not buy anything from any sellers immediately around that one. Super cautious, but IBD and the possibility of it is not something to be messed with! Also check to see how clean the containers the animals are in are. If an animal has defecated or urinated at the show, the seller might not see it right away and it might be in with the animal, but a lot of dirty, grimy containers are not excusable.

Hopefully this helps a bit, and best of luck with your next snake purchase. Reptile shows are sooo much fun and very informative!

Good 'N Plenty · 10-23-09, 10:01 AM

Great advice from both Chu and Willow, and the only other thing I would add is to watch how the dealer handles their own snakes.

It might be adding a level of sentimentality to the hobby that some people feel is unecessary, and perhaps this is just my personal issue, but I have always been offput by those who treat a snake as anything less than a living, sentient, feeling creature. Can it express complex emotions or even love you? No, it can't, even if we want to see certain actions as affectionate or loving. But does this mean the animal needs to be treated in a rough manner or handled a bit roughly? No, certainly not.
Like I said, I might be reading too much into it, but over a decade+ of visiting shows I have found that the sellers who treat the animals the best at the show, tend to treat them the best away from the show, because anyone can put up clean cages for a day, but away from the show, who knows, and I feel that how a seller personaly treats the animal is as indicative of treatment as housing/display at the show (though of course, all Willow and Chu's points still stand! This is just in addition to them)

*All opinions are strictly my own and it is not my intent to offend regarding my opinions how how treatment of animals at a show may/may not relate to treatment of the animals away from the show*

Will0W783 · 10-23-09, 01:43 PM

I agree wholeheartedly Good 'N Plenty. They are living creatures capable of feeling fear, pain, discomfort, hunger, and on the flip side comfort and ease. I can't stand sellers who simply treat them as merchandise. The absolute best snakes I have in my collection are those whose previous owners loved them as well and took a personal interest in them. Anyone who roughly handles a snake or shows disregard as to their comfort is a no-no to me!

Michael Roth · 10-24-09, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will0W783

4. Look at the vent (cloaca). It should be closed all the way, unless the animal is peeing/pooping/musking on you..lol. It should be clear and show no signs of discharge.

lol, be wary doing that with kingsnakes and milksnakes...

Will0W783 · 10-24-09, 09:27 AM

Lol- yeah they could musk you. But you have to look at it to make sure it's clean.