Evil mice, or doing the right thing?

[snakekeeper]

I would have to agree with renee and jj. There is no humane way to kill any animal.Some ways may cause less pain, but none the less is is still not humane.If you preffer to feed f/t thats fine, but also remember some people preffer to feed freash kill or live. That does not make them any less of a person IMO.

[J.J.]

Hey renee, your son has the same birthday as me! But i was born 1989

[J.J.]

I agree snake keeper

[Cas]

NO humane way to kill an animal, huh? What about euthanasia with anesthetic? I don't know about you, but I've been put under for surgery before, and it's pretty much the same sensation - only once the animal is asleep, they're overdosed so the heart slows and stops.

As far as killing mice for consumption by snakes, there are <i>more</i> humane ways, and there are <i>less</i> humane ways. Less pain = more humane, less time = more humane, less stress = more humane. If you kill a rodent in some way that take half an hour, but doesn't hurt and doesn't scare it, that's humane... and a way that has a second or 2 of stress and a split second of pain and then nothing is pretty darn humane to.... compared to say, drowning, or freezing directly...

Dawn

[V.aw]

I agree with the above post by Cas.


C02 gas is going to be alot less painful than putting the mouse through constriction. (or yes, breaking its neck, smacking it against a hard object ETC)

It's my opinion. its not going to change..

Ive seen people give up their pet hamsters, guinea pigs, rabbits etc to pet stores as they can no longer take care of them. They hand them over regardless of what the store tells them. 99% of the time the animal is to old to be put on display with the younger animals, so it will be used for a feeder.. The owner doesnt care, no emotion at all. The post by JJ Just reminded me of the very low respect for life these days. "I threw the dumb male in with ym snake for killing the baby mice". I dunno, if it was me id feel awful that i was neglectful enough to leave a male rodent with the babies. Then theres justification, like : That happens alot, its a husbandry problem! We dont tolerate our lizards killing another lizard, thats a tragedy. But when the mice do it, its like who cares. I just notice a really big disrespect for life, its sad. oh well thats my two cents

[V.aw]

Originally posted by J.J.
I totally agree with Renee. Pre-Killed mice arent "gently" killed or whatever! My goodness! How is that even possible? They do terrible things to kill mice to make frozen pre-killed mice. In fact I think that pre-killed mice are harmed more than Live fed mice! Also, you have reptiles?? Wow, that surprises me! I thought you were just on this site to complain about how we kill our mice and feed our snakes. No offense or anything......
Humainly Killed......that's actually quite funny.

So, leaving babies unattended with the mother, and being ignorant to possibilities that may arrise is humane?

leaving a mouse to suffer with a punctured stomach suffocating in its own blood is humane?


oooook.. As i said before, il go with the C02 anyday before id breed my own mice.

[ReneeB]

Originally posted by V.aw
So, leaving babies unattended with the mother, and being ignorant to possibilities that may arrise is humane?

leaving a mouse to suffer with a punctured stomach suffocating in its own blood is humane?


oooook.. As i said before, il go with the C02 anyday before id breed my own mice.

WOW so you are saying you'd CONSTANTLY watch over your baby mice.. must be nice not to have a life.

Who said anything about punctured stomachs?

Just a question for you.. Do you eat beef? chicken? pork? if so they are NOT killed humanely!

[Linds]

Originally posted by V.aw
We dont tolerate our lizards killing another lizard, thats a tragedy. But when the mice do it, its like who cares. I just notice a really big disrespect for life, its sad. oh well thats my two cents

We don't??? I'm sure if you ask around you will find that some people do keeep reptiles that do not eat rodents, but other reptiles or amphibians. This isn't just on mice, and I think you would be hardpressed to find any one of us raising our feeders as pets. I don't know of anyone who raises their feeders as anything other than feeders. I have my feeders, and I have my one pet rat - who will never be fed. I see no disrespect for life from anyones post in this thread. I kill my mice and rats instantly, no suffering, no different than the kind you receive that are frozen, only I'm not paying for someone else to do it. I have equal respect for all animals great and small. Be it an ant, a spider, a rabbit, snake or cow. All has equal importance. But the cycle of life is the cycle of life, it's not a manmade thing, we didn't choose it to be this way, that's just how it evolved. I didn't choose it so my animals happen to eat other animals, that's the way it just happens to be. There is a small population of people that do see it the way you are describing it - that do have the disresepct for certain species, that do raises them up like they would a pet, but thats a small percentage. I can't think of any of us here that are like that, so please do not stereotype us like that

[Grant vg]

I dont think anyone can really comment and blast one on the way someone else kills there rodents.
If one chooses to kill a rodent be it co2 or wacking it on the head a few times, its up to them. Bottom line. We all have our own opinions and our own set of morals.
What we persieve to be valuable and what is not, is up to the individual.
I for one have nothing against wacking a rat as many times as it takes for it to be dead prior to feeding.

If you have a large snake that eats rats, but wont eat dead ones, nor would you want to feed live ones, would u not wack the rat enough times to paralyze it but keep it alive so your snake will except it?

I have had to do this many of times, and it has been neccessary.
If your wondering whether i was feeling bad for the rat, no not really.
But thats me, It doesn't make me less of a person, i am just less sensitive to the issue then others.

My main concern is my snakes. not the rats.
My main concern is also my stomach, not the chicken that was killed to fill it.
And yes, one can say these chickens were killed in a "humane" way.
but really, if you are not a commercial rodent breeder, nor do you have the cash to spend on cO2. I really dont see anything wrong with wacking a rat on the head.
And i know i have fed a rat immediately after it bit me.
Would you consider me a bad person?
I have also fed pet anoles to an amazon tree boa, as well as made an anole stock.
does that make me a bad person?
If so, how would you describe me to a friend of yours, based on that fact?


True, that anole thing affected me somewhat, but see thats my line of sensitivity. And it doesnt make me a bad person. I did what i had to do, THE WAY I CHOSE TO.
Nothing wrong with that.
IMHO anyway.

Gvg

[Cas]

You know, I really don't see that there's a conflict raising mice that are intened to be feeders the same way you'd raise mice intended to be pets - it seems to me if the rodents are 'friendly', or at least not stressed out by being handled/examined/moved during cleaning, then that's improving their quality of life until the point when they're gased, whacked, or whatever. It makes their lives less stressful if they can handle our presence around them without having a little mousy heart attack every time we walk into the room (not to mention, if they aren't afraid of us, they're less likely to care if we mess around with their babies... so lowered chance of cannabalism). My one bin of breeder mice is hyper sensitive to my presence - they never fail to run and hide at top speed whenever I'm near their rack. I feel kinda bad for them, since at least once a day I give the little buggers the fright of their lives just by walking into the mouseroom. I should be getting pinks from them this month, and I don't think I'll be able to risk checking out the babies until they're fuzzy size - unless I just cull out most or all of them *note to self - must get CO2 tank set up, must get CO2 tank set up...before I'm up to my neck in mice*

As far as multiple cannabalizers/biters go... it only makes sense to feed them off... not really traits you want to pass on to future generations.

BTW, Grant, I was just wonding about this the other day.... does anole stock work as well as direct anole scenting? I would think the flavor/scent would be changed by the process of making stock... (it is done by boiling the anole, right?)

Dawn

[Grant vg]

Cas,

I would say that the anole stalk is far superior then scenting a rodent with an actual live anole.

My amazon didn't eat for months, did the stupid lizard scenting thing from T-rex or whatever. Didn't work.
Tried multiple times rubbing a pinky on an anole. dodn't work.
Then i tried the anole stalk and got instant results.

The way i did it, not sure if everyone wants to know. but hey!
This is the feeder forum! lol

I basically boiled hot water in a small pot, dropped the live anoles in which resulted in instant death.
Took them out.
Chopped them up.
Put the remains back in, and boiled it for 1/2 an hour and tad-dah!
Not only did i have the complete aroma of anoles, but i was able to use it over and over, as i put it in a container and freezed it.
Each time i needed to feed, i pulled the container out, left it in the over (which was turned off) and let it thaw out.
I then placed the pinky in the container, let it sit for a while.
Took it out, placed it in the container, and within minutes the amazon ate it.
Definately waaay better then using live anoles.
Plus you dont have to feed a gazillion crickets to the anole to keep it healthy.

And making a stalk of anything brings out the flavour.
We use many types of stock for many types of food at my restaurant for cooking and sauces.
So why wouldn't your snake like it?

[V.aw]

you do what you do to feed your animals i guess. i have my opinions on it, you may not agree. you have your opinions i may not agree, so lets leave it at that, everyone has their own opinions.
i respect your opinions, as iam sure you do mine.


Was fun debating, but this obviously wont go anywhere!!

Since i have no life, iam off to babysit my pinkies! jk, nice shot though raneeb it hurt badly

[Lisa]

For scenting mice some one suggested to me to brumate a toad in your fridge. too late to get one here, but we're going try it next year.

[Grant vg]

V. aw,

I just want to commend you on that last post.
I really like when ppl have such a strong opinion on an issue and still be able to accept a stalemate and move on to another great debate! Weve had many discussions reminding me of this one has which turned out for the worst.

Your awsome buddy!

But really, C'mon, i got to know somethin...
Were you not cringing at the teeth when u were reading my anole recipe? LOL'


Grant vg

[escm]

Originally posted by Grant vg
V. aw,

...

But really, C'mon, i got to know somethin...
Were you not cringing at the teeth when u were reading my anole recipe? LOL'


Grant vg

yes.