90 Gallon for a BP? - Page 2

lostwithin · 02-27-05, 09:11 PM

Hi, I read through this post and had just a few comments. One I think balls are a good choice my first snake was a ball about 8 years ago and I still have him.

Now as for the large enclosure there are several things to consider. First off Glass is a bad choice for ball pythons they are shy animals so the more you can see them the more stressed they are. So even with heat/humidity problems aside that’s the main reason it seems to be not the best choice. With all that said my male who was around 3 when I got him and I have had him for 8 years has always lived in a 4x1.5x1.5 Glass aquarium. Only last week did I finally move him into something better suited not for his health but simply because its a waste of a beautiful terrarium. 99% of his time was spent in his hide. That is just there nature.

From what I have read in your posts I would suggest you consider an IJ Carpet Python rather then a ball python. Although balls are amazing animals, they make HORRIBLE display animals. They are one of my favorites but no matter what you house him/her in you will never see it because they love to hide. A few months ago I picked up my first carpet. And he is amazing. He is always out in sight and most of the time perched in clear site. They also remain a manageable size and can come in some stunning colors. But the main advantage is they make great display animals so you can see them without taking them out unlike ball pythons. If you have your heart set on ball pythons then I would suggest you go with a plastic container even if you go with glass to avoid stress you will have to provide several hides and will never see your ball any way. But if not look into an IJ carpet I think in the end you will be much more pleased with the purchase.

No matter what species you chose if you use glass provide plenty of hiding areas so the snake can retreat if it feels the need too.

Either way, good luck.
Devon

Spirit · 02-27-05, 11:19 PM

Great post, Devon. I don't know WHY my ball is so active, but he's a freakishly agressive eater and seemingly healthy so I don't worry about it. For me, the glass viv works (for now anyway).

I'm curious though Devon... if after such a long time of housing in glass, what exactly was it that made you switch to rubbermaid (I mean was it just the waste of a viv)? I assume the carpet python is in his old home?

As for the original topic of this thread... And as someone who HATES tupperware... I fully suggest it over glass. For all the reasons mentioned in this thread.

lostwithin · 02-28-05, 05:49 PM

In the end it was the fact that it was a complete waste of a nice terrarium, and I was in need of a large enclosure for a wood turtle. So while re-arranging my herp room if finally took him out of there into an equally nice sized Rubbermaid. Which after only a short time I am much much happier with. My ball goes through an active spell every once and a while. But I find the climbing area he did have only worried me because they are horrible climbers and fell often.

Devon

Spirit · 02-28-05, 06:23 PM

Horrible climbers is an understatement. Mine falls CONSTANTLY. Like every 15 minutes. Usually into his water bowl. Maybe he thinks he's diving? *SPLASH*

joey · 02-28-05, 06:28 PM

I started out using a 20gallon deep tank and turned it on its side. Was great to see my bp and I thought it would work fine for her until she went through a really bad shed. Since then I've opted for the Rubbermaids and I think they are the best for any ball python.

lostwithin · 02-28-05, 06:40 PM

Mine also often landed in the water although chances are he fell everywhere the water just makes the loudest noise so I notice it. I was always worried he would hurt himself though because he not a small snake, it wasn’t a big drop but they are all ribs, and I'm amazed he never cracked one.

Devon

End Times · 02-28-05, 09:11 PM

Alright all, after all your arm twisting I went out and bought two "rubbermaid" containers made by a company called Sterlite. They are 23" long, 16.5" wide, and 6 inches high. I read somewhere in another post that many people use this size successfully for adults. God, they seem so small though... Maybe I"ll start with these and then buy a custom made like I said If these don't work out...

One question regarding rubbermaid housing though, if you don't have them setup on a rack system, where the shelf above acts as the top for the containers below, how do you secure the lids that come with the tupperware containers to keep the snakes from escaping? Surely there is a more convenient, and attractive, way than putting something heavy on top? I was thinking of maybe drilling holes through the "lip" of the container and lid and then fastening them some how... Or maybe rigging up some kind of velcro straps... What does everyone else do?

Spirit · 02-28-05, 09:17 PM

Nylon utility straps. 6' cost like $0.50.

HumphreyBoagart · 02-28-05, 11:43 PM

I'm not trying to start any $#!t here, but Spirit, I seem to remember not to long ago (a week), you thanking Mr. Favelle for showing his video because your "aggressive" feeder that you've only had for what, 5 weeks now, finally ate for you!?! Correct me if I'm wrong. (Even though I know I'm not.)

Hump.

Spirit · 03-01-05, 12:11 AM

No no! You're ABSOLUTELY right, it was the 18th of this month I posted that thread, and he's tagged (with EXTREME agression, and NO hesitation) 3 (small) rats since then. (the feeding schedule will change once he's on the proper size meals)

And just to clarify, he was NEVER a problem feeder. He refused food for just under 2 weeks, during the switchover. Didn't want to take the rat. I hear that's normal.

He was in a glass viv before and was just as an agressive feeder on mice, than he is on rats. Well he's more agressive with the rats now, but that's aside the point. I've been handling him since November, almost daily, and never had a problem feeding him mice. I brought him home in January.

Sorry, Hump... I would have clarified that, but I didn't think it was relevant to the thread.

Edited to add that during those two weeks, he was also going through a shed, and adjusting to a new home. Aside from that and the switch from mice to rats, I was also using aspen... 23% humidity. Fixed that right up.

HumphreyBoagart · 03-01-05, 12:50 AM

Ah I see. no need to appologize. I just thought it was weird how you were telling End Times that it was an "aggressive" feeder and seemingly healthy, but in the other thread you where talking about it not eating on it's own and you had to "assist" feed it because you were worried about it's small size for it's age and you didn't want it to lose any more weight, because it didn't have it to lose. Just threw me off thats all.
Hump.

Spirit · 03-01-05, 01:06 AM

Well... yes and no. He is very thin for his age (was on one mouse fuzzy every 7 days), but not only that but I mistakenly bought rat pinks instead of pups. Since I'm used to corns, I had no idea how to handle the feeding process, when switching.

And since you mentioned assist feed, I wanted to clarify exactly what it was that I did. I held his head with NO pressure (he's not at all head shy) and GENTLY touched the rat to his snout. I did NOT open his mouth, and if he wanted to turn his head away, I would let him. There was no forcing here, but I digress... After a few seconds, he would tag and constrict the rat on his own. It was getting him to do it without the head holding, that I was having a problem with.

I hated doing that, but since he was on such small meals as it was, and I bought too small of rats, I didn't feel comfortable waiting for him to take it on his own. That is the ONLY reason why I fed him in the manner I did. I did that twice (three, if you include the one time I was shown how to do it), and after some advice from Jeff, he took the rat very agressively (on his own). Didn't give me a hint of warning... Practically jumped at it and scared the crap out of me. lol

But getting back to the subject of this thread (and I know it's about size, not glass vs plastic), my only point is that glass can be a giant pain in the butt to get the husbandry right, ESPECIALLY if your snake is easily stressed (which mine evidentally is not), and 99% of the time, rubbermaid is better. Though glass CAN work, it's not always the best, and smaller is always better for a baby ball, as it offers more security.

90 gallons is just WAY too big (imho), no matter WHAT you use.

I think we all got just a touch off topic, and I know I tend to run off on my own path, but the bottom line, is that's the point I was trying to make.

Okay... That is all. Thanks Hump!

lostwithin · 03-01-05, 07:56 AM

End Times I am using similar Sterlite containers (one size up which is over kill but I wanted them all to be the same size and my blood uses that space). They work great I have also drilled holes as you mentioned and fastened the lid in place it works fine.

As for the size of the container that would work great for an adult ball but if you purchase a young ball it may be to big (I know that’s hard to believe because they look so small) . the ball I house in mine is an old guy who has long passed the 4' mark. and he still spends 99% of the time in a 1' x1' hide lol. But young ball pythons often do best in small enclosures until they have grown then move them into larger ones. If you do use that size right from the start be sure to offer several hides for the snake to use. A hide should be just big enough for then snake to squeeze into and curl up so he’s pressed against the sides. That will limit the stress because the snake will simply live in one of the he’s inside the bigger cage. My personal preference has always been larger enclosures with several hides, but sometimes it is necessary to provide a small enclosure for picky or easily stressed animals.

Devon

lostwithin · 03-01-05, 08:19 AM

Spirit, after reading your last post I have to say I am curious if you have had your ball python to a vet at all recently? With all other comments aside and absolutely no insult intended in any way. Your animal does not sound like the typical healthy ball python. I have never seen a ball python that would allow someone to hold it head and put food in its mouth if it allows that there is something wrong. Often people mistake active calm animals, as healthy and stress free, when it can be the complete opposite in my experience a active ball is active because something is wrong with its environment that it is trying to escape or correct by finding a new place to hide/live.

I will not bother commenting on that fact you said he is a strong feeder and you were having feeding problems (because that in its self contradicts itself but you did provide an explanation for it).

But you did mention that he is underweight. If he really is a strong feeder and still underweight there is something wrong. Even if you were feeding several items too small, he should still be a healthy weight unless you have been starving him, which would explain allot of the previous behavior. (Not hiding, moving around in search of food, laying in the open because its to weak to care, aggressive feeder because it starving in hunger) Now that is not in any way meant as an accusation just a possibility.

And now although I did think maybe something was wrong right from the beginning when you mentioned how different your ball. It is when you mentioned you could hold his head and assist feed with no problem that you erased all doubt, your snake is in rough shape, non of that is healthy or normal. There is something wrong with that poor snake and although I have my suspicions as to what it might be I suggest you go to a vet and find out.

I do apologize if any of that cam off as insulting it was only meant to be informative.

Devon

Spirit · 03-01-05, 01:31 PM

Yep. Excellent health. A little small, but not dangerously underweight, is what I was told. I'm curious as to what your suspicions are though.

As for holding his head though, he didn't like it much and sometimes he would fight and pull back to let go... he's not weak by any means, if that's what you're thinking. He's just extremely well handled. He's hiding right now, btw, and his weight is coming on nicely. He's small because he was slightly underfed (1 MOUSE FUZZY a week is NOT sufficiant for a 5 month old ball)... and I'm sure that's one of the reasons why he cruises so much... looking for more food. He started doing this after he realized rats were that good. Man, he LOVES those rats... I never saw him eat mice like that!

I have no concerns whatsoever about his health, but I really do appreciate what you said in that last post. It's nice to see someone show concern, rather than critisicism (so much of that lately), though if we care to continue this, it should be taken to pm, or to another thread, as this isn't my thread.

PS. I mentioned how I had been handling him since November... The reason I waited so long to take him home was because I had the same concerns as you have. Mind you if you can tell me something the expert couldn't, that would be REALLY nice. You're right about this not being normal, but TO ME, he appears to be a healthy snake... not OVERLY active (moves slow, stops, etc), and he's an excellent tongue flicker. lol