Keeping Native Species in Ontario *Please Read*

[GaryB]

First of all I want to say that some of you are hipocrits. I am fairly new to the site, but not to herping. I have to say from some of the posts I've read especially on the herping forum, it sounds like some of you, when you go out herping are hunting for these reptiles, and what about some of the people who grab at these herps, and are seen holding them, you think that your germs from your hands well harm certain herps. how do u know that the snake won't die after you release it. And these people taking pictures, and I know I am guilty of it, moving stuff around and destroying there home, to get a good picture. And don't get me started on the government, who r they to say what we can and cannot do. Least I agree with Jeff, that wildlife belongs to the people of ontario. And from what I understand you can keep certain species, snappers, gartners. who cares what people collect, or what they do. Some people collect all kinds of things, potatoe chips, cards. Having a few reptiles, maybe better than them getting eaten in soup. Thats my opinion.

[rattekonigin]

I have to say, I'm quite surprised by the ignorance to conservation issues displayed by some people in this thread. The point of the laws is not to prevent some little kid collecting a garter snake, it's to prevent exploitation of native species, many of which are in decline already and don't need the added pressure of collection. The law has to be "black and white" because there'll always be some people looking to make a profit at the expense of the animals/environment who will just bend or break the rules/regulations.

Collection from developing countries is no better, but OUR government can't do anything about other nations' internal policies. What WE can do, as a community of hobbyists, is to avoid buying wild caught animals from anywhere and, instead, support the sustainable pet trade through captive breeding. Sure, somebody at some time had to have gone out and caught the original animals from which our pets came. But, again, that's not the point. The point is that we've already done enough damage to the environment and we now KNOW BETTER.

People can bash PETA all they want (and I'm not saying I support their tactics or their militant views) but at least they are trying to do something to benefit animals and the environment. How many of you can say the same?

As for the whole germs comment... Humans are mammals, reptiles and amphibians are not. There are very few diseases we can pass on to them, by virtue of the fact that they have very different physiologies from us. So, handling a reptile and letting it go is not likely to introduce some kind of pathogen to the wild population.

Potato chips and baseball cards aren't living things. Apples and oranges.

[gargoyle]

I agree in the most part with the legal part of this thread, but (ya call me a hipocrite) haveing worked for the Ministry of Natural Resources of Ontario for four years in the 90's I know first hand that they should be focusing more on other herp related incidents. For example in the course of a week, I saw a Conservation officer give a $200 fine to a teen for picking up a painted turtle, then later in the week I watched the same C.O. give a warning to a grown man that beat a Eastern Fox snake to death with a shovel because it was close to his camp site, no other reason..........where is the law in this.....after this I lost faith in the laws written my the MNRO and the people that enforce them. You can try but you'll never be able to tell me that keeping a Eastern Fox snake to show to your kids is worse than killing one for fun. I do agree that there should be no "commercial collection" of our native reptiles as they are in decline. If the laws are only enforced when the C.O. feels he wants to then that doesn't do anything either! Just my opinions from my personal experience.. I'm not a big government supporter in any sense and I hope I'm never accused of being one either!

[chas*e]

Be good, don't make waves , keep quiet, pay taxes(all of them), inform on your friends who break any law, obey city/regional by-laws, your Goverment loves you and wants to keep you safe to buy their drugs, cigs and to gamble.....remember that...

[wetlander]

You can try but you'll never be able to tell me that keeping a Eastern Fox snake to show to your kids is worse than killing one for fun.

Actually it may not seem as bad, but when you remove an individual from the population it is scientifically equal to being dead. The snake can't reproduce and therefore is not able to pass on its genes, or replace itself. Releasing the individual in the fall may actually cause the snake to die. Many snakes return to hibernacula. Removing the snake from the wild may disorient the snake so that it cannot find its winter shelter even if released at the same location. This has been found to be true with Massassaugas. Moving these snakes 300 metres can result in their death.

Most of us have probably kept native herps as pets at some point in our lives, especially as kids when we don't know any better. But I think most us would like to protect native populations and keep diseases out of our collections. Although I don't support the keeping of Native species, I would not report someone for keeping a garter snake, ringneck, redbelly or Dekay's Snake. I would report any native species I saw being sold no matter how common it is. Keping something for educational purposes is one thing but reaping financial gain from illegal wildlife I won't support

PS Most of us field herpers break the law when ever we go out. The laws don't just stop you from keeping them, but they also state that you should not disturb. If you get too close to photograph, pick it up, or in any other way intentionally bother them then technically you are breaking the law. The question is, at what point will the Conservation Officers actually step in and charge you.