Boa Babies Born Jan 20, 2005!!!!! - Page 2

AnniesMom · 01-21-05, 09:11 AM

When I checked the babies this morning, none responded to misting at all. They all appear dead. They are kinda flat, and dry looking, even though the rubbermaid had moisture in it and the towels were damp. None had changed postion from last night. Still in the same places. I don't think that they made it. I will leave them until this afternoon, and if there is still no movement, I need to assume they are gone. An unfortuante end to my first clutch. Thanks for your support
Tracy

BoidKeeper · 01-21-05, 09:26 AM

Tracy if they were going to die they were going to die whether you took them out or left them in. Like Nick said they sounded like preemies to me too. If that is the case their death was beyond your control. What can happen when a female keeps eating after ovulation is that when she has a dump close to the due date it can get contractions going and she will start pushing out the babies too soon. This is why a lot of breeders don't feed their females after ovulation, some before even. Was their fresh fecal matter in with the babies?
Cheers,
Trevor

BOAS_N_PYTHONS · 01-21-05, 11:42 AM

TRACY:

Sorry to hear about the loss.

Tony

AnniesMom · 01-21-05, 04:29 PM

Thanks Tony, Trevor. No there was no fresh poop with the babies, but she did poop within the last week. After I left this morning, my hubby checked on them again, and said that one of them responded to being misted and so he seperated it from the others and increased the temp and humididty a little, but when I got home, there was no reaction. I suspect that it was just maybe post-mortem muscle spasms, or wishfull thinking, although he said that he could see a pulse. I hate to get rid of the bodies until I know that they are truly dead, because last night I would watch them and they would not breathe, move or pulse for an hour and then they would start again. Very strange and stressful. Nothing I can do I know, but it bugs me to see such little things die. Maybe I should leave the breeding up to the experts. Too depressing for me.

Phrasty · 01-24-05, 03:43 PM

Aww. sorry about all this, it sux. But giving up isnt the answer. Its life... these things happen, unfortunately it happend to you or rather your snake. What im trying to say is give her a break (i dont know if she's just too young) for a year and try again, Just be prepared from earlier.
Well hopefully at least one pulls through. good luck.

AnniesMom · 01-26-05, 12:29 AM

Thanks Phrasty. none of the babies pulled through. I think that it's not her age(she's over 8years old) or her size(she's well over 7.5 feet). She continued eating during her pregnancy and pooped recently. i think that started a preemie labour. The largest of the neonates was less that 12 inches in length and they were all very slender, with large yolk sacs. We are going to try her again, during the next breeding season. I'm doing more research .

JDouglas · 01-27-05, 12:41 AM

I realize you didn't know whe was gravid. They all look premature to me. I'm very sorry.

They have very large yolk sacs for their size which indicates they weren't done growing. Preemies lungs are not fully developed and that is why they are having troulbe breathing. The mother pushed them around to get them going and out of their sacs. She meant no harm but sometimes this can kill healthy babies.

Handling her could have started premature labor. When was the last time she was handled?

Feeding a boa in the last few weeks can also cause premature birth and there doesn't neccesarily have to be a passed stool to cause it. Just the added pressure of the food can cause it and then they can deficate a few days after birth. When was she last fed?

What temperature was her cool side and hot spot?

These are all things you need to investigate to know what went wrong.

Don't give up. You actually were somewhat successful. Many people who try to breed them get nothing at all and never figure it out. Your halfway there!

Jaremy

AnniesMom · 01-28-05, 09:59 AM

fed jan 5, pooped jan 14 ,held jan 14. Hot spot 91, cool side 84. she peed yesterday, and I took her out. she is very active right now. she ate on the 22, 2 days after birth, and seems hungry again. there is no lump in her from the meal. I wonder if I should feed her again? or wait a week or so. I am planning to try again in the later summer/fall. maybe be a little more prepared next time. I spoke with a pet shop owner who has bred boas and he was disappointed with the loss, as he was hoping to get one from me.

ATBlover · 02-03-05, 04:52 PM

Im sorry about your loss Annie....Jeremy is right...there was nothing you can do and most people get nothing when they breed for the first time...also boas arent the easiest to breed either...Anyways just wanted to say sry and i hope you continue with breeding you boas...Good luck.....Connor

AnniesMom · 02-04-05, 08:08 PM

Thanks Connor. I will be tryin again. Tracy

dave68 · 02-04-05, 08:35 PM

Annies Mom, Good to hear you're not giving up, but I myself would give your girl a whole year off with some good strong feeding to bring her weight back up and just kinda recharge her batteries so to speak. Good luck.

Dave

AnniesMom · 02-05-05, 11:44 AM

Dave, she actually didn't lose much weight during her pregnancy. Part of the reason she went into preemie labour was because she continued eating normal sized meals, I think. Thank you for your concern. Honey Bun is first and foremost my pet, and her welfare is my greatest concern, not her breeding capabilities. I want her to breed again, but not at the risk of her health.

Stav.T · 02-05-05, 01:50 PM

Hi Tracy,

Quote:

Nothing I can do I know, but it bugs me to see such little things die. Maybe I should leave the breeding up to the experts. Too depressing for me.

I know its hard to take and even harder to understand when a thing like that happens especially if its the first time a person gets a litter of boas. ( i've been thrue that more than once since I started breeding boas a long time ago. )

There's a better way to see it other than just quiting. The way I see it is ..... Its a part of the long learning process of breeding boas. Without things like that hapening someone can't experience, question and learn on breeding. ( I dont know if you understand what i'm trying to say my english is poor. ) Seing it this way should help a bit I think and maybe bring you some kind of confort

Many things might have gone wrong it hapens. These were premature babies judjing by how big their sack is as many other people already told you.

Some of the most common reasons why this happend could be :

- to much manipulation on during pregnancy - stress ( especially if your not aware that she was gravid ) .

- temperatures she was kept ( to cold or to high can kill the babies, and maybe the reason why she gave birth prematurally so that they dont rot inside her )

- drugs ( There's some drugs that can do that to , if she took them during pregnancy - even in the early stages )

- Very big sized meals on the last miles of her pregnancy. ( There's boas that stop eating right when you put the male with the female and others that eat until 1-2 weeks before giving birth and this whithout any problem. I personally feed all females "logical sized meals" until they decide to stop by them self. I never had any problems with that practice. )

- Not enough fat reserves to sustain pregnancy until the end.

These things are what I think are the most common reasons for getting stillborns. ( again only from what i experienced ).

I hope this helps its not worth it quiting

Edit**** I forgot.... do you have any pics of the female after birth? sometimes it can give clues on what happenned. ( just curious and its really an intersting topic to me

Stav

AnniesMom · 02-06-05, 10:30 PM

Hi Stav, no I don't have any pictures of Honey following birth. She has eaten twice since the 20th of Jan, so it would not be accurate. As to your points:
- she was handled during pregnancy on a regular basis. (ignorance of gravidity on my part)
-temps range from 84 - 92 in her cage, so I don't think that is a problem.
-no medications taken.
-she continued to eat normal sized meals for most of her pregnancy, ie large guinea pigs or 2 lb rabbits.
- she was not "fat" before pregnancy, but she had a good amount of padding on her. I will see if I can post a pic of her before she was preggers.

I don't intend to give up. It was an upsetting but very educational process, and with the info I have been given since, I feel much better prepared to deal with the next pregnancy.
Tracy