Disadvantages to large females and large clutch sizes??

[RandyRemington]

I'd like to hear about the resolution to the egg binding also. I'm getting the idea it's pretty rare in ball pythons (at least compared to corn snakes). I've heard of one that eventually passed it on her own and another where it was messaged out but that's it.

My two biggest/fattest females didn't produce last year. I think I over fed them in a rush to get them big. They aren’t that old of animals (about 7 years) but where pushing 4,000 grams and didn’t really have the length yet to justify that weight. Perhaps decreased fertility could be a problem with very fat girls but hopefully not the big ones that aren't over fat.

I remember with the larger breeds of cattle (Semital?) they used to complain that they took longer to reach maturity and longer to recover from having a calf and re-bred.

Maybe when comparing a genetic giant line of ball pythons to a moderate sized one you can grow the daughters up quicker and breed them more reliably with the moderate sized ones. I know my best producer (5 years in a row) is a moderate sized girl. She is only just 2000 grams now and her biggest clutch so far was 7. However she has never laid an egg that didn't hatch so she is my old reliable and a good choice for an important project.

[Markus Jayne]

I have bred both large (4800 grams) and small girls (1500 grams) and many in between.

In speaking to lots of breeders that breed big numbers, it is common to hear them say that their big FAT girls just won't go for them. I think the operative word here is FAT...not big.

Yes we live in a world that is time sensative and rushing what would naturaly take time in nature, to suit our own needs, is very common. This does not always translate into a positive end to the means.

Bigger is not always better or should I say fatter is definitely not better!

Traditionally my best clutches come from females that are not fat in anyway and if anything I would say they are a little under-weight. My biggest disapointments have come from my biggest and fattest females. How about 10 slugs from a Mojave breeding? That one hurt!!!

Also I have found that my odds on big clutches are always worse than my small clutches. But that is just my luck, nothing to do with size.

All in all, I would say that keeping females svelt and sexy is the best plan. Fat just doesn't cut it in the long run.

By the way, the 4800 gram female was under-weight at the time. She laid 14 eggs. (Mike perry's female on breeding loan.)

Are we having fun yet? You bet we are!

Markus

[Bristen]

Valuable information there Mark. I think the issue is probably not how "big" the females are, but rather how "fat" are they.. overweight females are probably no good... but large females (as in long and full) probably would be the best...

as far as a Mojave breeding producing 10 slugs, I honestly think that would of been enough to make me cry... ARGH!!! All part of the fun I guess!

Thanks for the post Markus!
Bristen.

[Darren179]

It is because Jeff thinks before he posts. He doesnt want to blab out useless clutter. . Kind of like the rat from the ninja turtles.

All in all, I would say that keeping females svelt and sexy is the best plan

lmao off Mark. What defines Svelt and Sexy for your female snakes. If you dont want your fatties I can take them off your hands absolutely free!

[RandyRemington]

But group thinking out loud can have its benefits too.

My two fattest females didn't produce but I don't have enough experience by myself to be sure it's a trend. Then I hear from someone like Mark about his experience and also what he has heard from big breeders and I'm thinking we have some pretty decent evidence that fat looking female ball pythons might not be the best breeders.

Sure some bad ideas get thrown out there some times but a lot of good ones do too. I’d like to think most of us are able to sift through the data and find the good stuff.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Fat females and fat males definitely don't reproduce as prolifically. But you also have to remember that a Ball Python is a naturally stout snake. So a FAT Ball Python is downright MASSIVE. Like a Blood Python. Probably not many people here have actually seen or owned a fat Ball Python.

Festively plump and good muscle-tone and you can't go wrong.

[mykee]

I agree, I like to keep my females (snake or not) plump, yet toned, 'cause fat-bottomed girls they make the rockin' world go 'round.

[marisa]

'Heap big woman, you made a bad boy out of me, Hey hey!'


Lots of good information in this post! I have enjoyed reading through all of it.

Marisa

[Jeff_Favelle]

LOL!

[RandyRemington]

I don't have a pic of either suspected "too fat girl" at her peak fatness but here is a pic of one of them not too long before her peak.

What do you think, fat?

[smeagel]

How much does she weigh? Looks pretty good, but i'm no expert. From what I have heard, if a snakes scales are stretching apart then it is overweight, but i don't know how true this is.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Not even close to overweight. That's a typical pre-breeding season adult from what I've seen and owned.

[Bartman]

All of my ball look like that, except kind of for my male who is starting to slim down and get longer. My latest female is very nice and plump.

Great thread though, ive learned a lot. I think im going to wait even a bit longer until I breed the two girls I have, and make sure they arent fat but more of just a good size.

[RandyRemington]

She eventually got up to 4,000 grams, I'm not sure where she was in the picture.

The 2nd fattest girl I attempted to breed last year that also failed I was sure was gravid (inverted a lot etc.) so I didn't even offer food most of the summer and she ended up loosing 500 grams and now looks much more like the girls I've successfully breed so will hopefully go this year.

[lostwithin]

I would have to agree, I see no down side to a BIG snake, but A fat snake would have problems. Now if the snakes are not fat then the bigger the better.


Devon