A couple 2003 males - Page 2

Invictus · 10-04-04, 10:45 AM

Can we get more pics of the platty? Also, I wanted to ask... what type of gene is that Corey? Co-dom? Recessive?

NiagaraReptiles · 10-04-04, 05:27 PM

It's actually a Lesser Platty

As far as I'm aware, Ralph is the only one with Platty's (aka-Platty Daddy). As for the genetics, it appears to be incomplete dominant (co-dom) with the Platty being the "super" form, but there are a whole bunch of other genes at work within this lineage (Leucistic included). I guess the bottom line is you can produce Lesser's in the same manner as you could Pastels, but beyond that has yet to be determined.........

If you read through Ralph's Platty section on his website you may feel al ittle more enlightened..........or confused

JonK

nita · 10-04-04, 05:43 PM

Confused!! LOL, I don't think even he knows what is up sometimes. Especially with the leusictic. The first time he produced one he had 3 possible males that could have been the sire to the Lucy and I haven't read anywhere else on what he may have bred together to get more lucy's, the man has amazing BP's but odd breeding practices. The lessor platty's themselves though are amazing!

RandyRemington · 10-05-04, 05:38 AM

Ralph has produced platy (i.e. "platy daddy") from lesser X normal looking siblings but never from lesser X unrelated normals so I'm thinking that a platy is a lesser + homozygous for some kind of recessive dilution gene. He did produce another three platies from platy X lesser but the ones produced with normal looking platy daddy offspring would seem to rule out the difference between lesser and platy being any type of dominant.

The odd thing is that the dilution gene doesn't seem to show up without lesser (normal looking offspring of platy daddy crossed together produced only 24 normals).

Platy X normal has produced 27 lessers and 31 normals. Lesser X normal has produced (at RDR) 35 lessers and 26 normals. So it sure looks like lesser is a het for a single gene and not a combination it's self.

I also believe that lesser is a visible het for incompletely dominant/co-dominant leucistic along with mojave, phantom, and probably also butter.

VI Reptiles · 10-06-04, 03:32 PM

Corey, do you got a website?

Corey Woods · 10-06-04, 08:36 PM

I'm in the process of getting one done up.........

Corey

nita · 10-06-04, 08:58 PM

Thanks Randy, I did go back and check out some of what Ralph has in his site there and noticed he had gotten Lucy's from breeding the lessors with phantoms, and lessors to the platy daddy right? What are the odds of lessors, phantoms, butter, and mojave all produce Lucy's in the homo form??? Also since a phantom to lessor produces lucy does this mean that they are on the same allel (sorry for the shoddy spelling) and therefor same mutation. Or is it possible that Lucy is a resessive and these animals just happen to carry the ressesive along with the codom lesser or mojave gene? Are Phantoms actually separate from the mojave's? I have never seen pics of them together but from the pics of mojave's and from the pics of the phantoms they look the same but like I said never seen pics of the two together. Also the butters look a lot like the phantoms that Ralph had on his site. I would love to see a pic of all of them together, best way to see the differences. Have they been bred together yet to see if they are compatable?

RandyRemington · 10-07-04, 07:34 AM

RDR has produced leucistic from lesser X phantom, platy X lesser, and platy X phantom. MKR has produced leucistic from lesser X mojave.

Leucistic could be recessive but it seems unlikely that the unrelated (as far as we know) lesser, mojave, and phantoms would all just happen to look similar and all happen to also carry a separate compatible recessive gene. It seems more likely that the similar appearance is a co-dominant leucistic gene. It might be that all three (and perhaps also the similar looking butter) are alleles, different mutations of the same gene. They could even be the same mutation of the same gene and the differences in appearance caused by other genes in the different lines. Hopefully some more phantom X phantom crosses will be done (one normal hatchling so far), and the first mojave X mojave cross and the first (AFAIK) butter X butter crosses will be done soon. The results of those breeding and perhaps even more important the results of breeding leucistics X normals (producing no normals per my theory) should help us nail this down.

Ralph Davis originally thought his phantom line was mojave and at first TSK agreed but then they both decided that it was different. The phantoms don't seem to have as wide of dark pattern areas or as nice a dorsal color as the mojave line. To me it looks like mojave is half way between phantom and lesser with lesser being the most dilute colored with the possible exception of butter.

Not many people have more than one of these morphs. I once saw an MKR pic of a lesser and a mojave together that looked very similar. RDR could actually get a pic of platy, butter, lesser, and phantom all together (maybe he even has mojave by now). That would be something to see!

Invictus · 10-07-04, 10:41 AM

According to Bob Clark's site, the Leucistics are produced by what he calls "Fire Balls". He has pictures of them right on his main page.

morph · 10-07-04, 12:51 PM

Different leucy's Ken they have black eyes not blue

Scott

marisa · 10-07-04, 02:22 PM

"Different leucy's Ken they have black eyes not blue"

That's true! The fire balls/black eyed leucys are cool and all, but man the BLUE eyed leucies are where it's at IMHO. I LOVE the blue eyes. Makes the entire snake look that much better.

Marisa

morph · 10-07-04, 03:12 PM

Blue eyes all the way for sure Marisa

Scott

RandyRemington · 10-08-04, 07:43 AM

The Vin Ruso line is black eyed, right? What about that NERD female that bred this year and the one that Peter Kahl has been breeding for a couple years? I'm not sure how those lines fit in, maybe they are all more like the fireball line or some maybe even Ivory. Even with perhaps a couple hundred het leucistics around by now I've got to think that the morph (all the flavors) is so stunning they will not be affordable any time soon.

Invictus · 10-08-04, 10:42 AM

I thought that the very definition of the word "Leucistic" meant white with black eyes. Then again, ball pythons seem to break ALL of the rules, don't they?

marisa · 10-08-04, 01:17 PM

The definition might be white with black eyes, but a couple white snakes with blue eyes are called leucys....the blue eyed leucy balls, and leucistic rat snakes as well have blue eyes, not black.

So I am sure the definition is correct but is used for these animals, or maybe it's not correct and it means both black and blue eyes.

Marisa