Who would pay this?

[mykee]

Spidergecko, Real Estate?? Lets say you put $50,000 down on a 'moderately-sized', $250,000 home (20%) and I buy a Lesser Platty.

Using your 3 year theory, you sell the house that you paid $250,000 for three years earlier for $300,000 (good luck making 20% back in 36 months) for arguements sake, I'm playing with the numbers in your favour. You get the $50,000 you put down back (you make nothing), you also get the amount you paid down you mortgage (maybe $10,000, the other $15,000 goes to the bank as interest) and the profit from the purchase price to the selling price: $50,000. You've made yourself $60,000. in three years. Good job.

Now with that same $50,000 I bought a Platty, chances are that in three years I've bred my male Platty twice (by the way, I bought a male, and I named him "Sugardaddy Platty") and I bred him to a "very conservative" 10 females the first year, and 8 took. The following year I bred him to 15 females and only 10 took. I average 5 eggs per lady (see how I'm on your side here). that's 90 eggs. Again, I'll give you the advantage and say 10 die for whatever reason, which leaves me with 80 eggs, and 35/80 were platties (odds in your favour). Let's also say that platties are now $35,000 instead of $50,000. I just made $1,225,000!! less the original $50,000, and I've got $1,175,000 with one single platty male while you have a paltry $60,000 in your pocket and nowhere to live. (Don't worry, I'll rent you one of the apts. over my 6 car garage.)

[morph]

Mykee too funny...........


Scott

[Tim_Cranwill]

Mykee, can you rent space to me too? I have "pets" but they don't make much noise.

[mykee]

Tim: LOL. In terms of renting, I only have the 1,700 sq. ft. dog house, equipped with c/a, c/v, 41" plasma, hi-speed internet and two bedrooms on the second floor; one for you, with an ensuite and one for your 'pets', and of course you'll get your own entrance. The basement and main floor is for the dogs, they like their privacy so are off limits to you, got it!!

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

EVERYONE:

Lots of good points have been mentioned here. These animals are simply just investments for the production and propagation of making money. Like an investment you must put something into it to gain from it but also understand all its risks as well.

I see people mentioning cars, houses and things; these are all investments that for the most part do depreciate. But also can gain more than the initial investment. Houses in my province have all gone up if you can sell you will gain from it now. Cars.....if they aren’t something rare and very unique you lost your money. But like all materialistic things they only have worth if people want them, the more people the better chance of gain.

As for snakes this is pretty much the same thing, those Ball Pythons are gorgeous and a few people will get into them and for a short period the value will be there. Once the prices come down due to over population in the community and not as many buyers able to pay it, then the uniqueness will be gone as well and very common in the community. Breeders who get into the high end morphs do it for what ever reason but it comes down to being the first to cash in on the rarities, its like knowing the winning horse at the track or a hot tip in the market. Of course there is the pleasure of creating something new or improving on what is out there now, but expect the price to follow as well.

I find the ones that say the price is outrageous or insane are the ones who can’t buy them anyways for whatever reason. And then they are the ones when they get something breeding don’t want to drop there prices as well.

Jeff went into the potential of this and other animal projects and to show the figures and possibilities. But like when I write up a contract with friends who invest in my projects a main paragraph goes into the 1 thing all investments face. Loss, not loss in depreciation but more in a very common situation to all living things and that is death due to genetics, health, care, age and so on. When Jeff stated the gains you also have to expect the losses and total loss as well. So some people who would not jump into a $45,000 animal see it this way as well. Plus you have to see the priorities in life. Buy a $45,000 animal and live with parents or renting or put money in a home. I myself am not wealthy enough to put all my eggs in 1 basket, and the ones that do either have another basket or are blinded by future returns. I know a few on either side of that, some got lucky others paid dearly.

Now the people who are asking these prices do it because of many factors. Putting aside if you feel these animals are even worth it. It was stated already it all about supply and demand. Put a good reputation behind the animals and a long history of that reputation and the price is justified. As long as there are people willing to pay that price then it will stay at that price for awhile. You have to think if you create something rare and there is a drive from people wanting more you would also come up with a crazy price tag.

Price itself is nothing in some terms, its flexible I mean if you have $40,000 in cash and wanted that Ball Python I think it will be yours on a $5,000 discount or trades happen or favors are done. I think everyone is flexible as the seller or buyer and add time to it and things happen.

$45000 in US dollars, man I know so many boa projects I would be in and gain more than Jeff’ s worksheet...lol.



Cya...

Tony

[spidergecko]

Originally posted by mykee
I just made $1,225,000!! less the original $50,000, and I've got $1,175,000 with one single platty male while you have a paltry $60,000 in your pocket and nowhere to live.

I'm definitely in the wrong business...

[Jeff_Favelle]

Well I wouldn't go that far. In 3 or so years you could still sell the house, pass along the mortgage, and still have made money (depending on the terms and ... blah blah). And given how long it takes for the snakes to produce, the house would probably bring you a better investment after 3 years

Not even close. There's real estate agent fees, SERIOUS taxes, paperwork fees, lawyer fees, etc etc. Flipping a house and making any sort of money beyond 15% per dwelling is next to impossible. You could make more money with a single pair of Pastel Ball Pythons than you could flipping a $300,000 house, with 1/10 the risk.

Frankly, I think you could end up with a $50,000 snake using funds from past sales whereby the total out of pocket expense would be nothing more than the cost of a normal corn snake. I think you have to work up to it, though.

You couldn't be more right brother. Snake money for many is play money. You have a pair of corns, they breed and you get 20 eggs @ $25 a piece and all of a sudden you have $500. Get a pair of Rainbow Boas, breed them, and they have 20 babies @ $200 each and all of a sudden you have $4 GRAND to play with. This is FREE/FUNNY/DISPOSABLE income, simply because as a hobbyist, you'd have the animals anyways. So what do you do with the $4K? Buy a pair of Pastels? Maybe a pair of Womas? How about a trio of het Pieds? Maybe a quartet of CB Green Tree Pythons? So down the road, when it comes time to breed those, all of a sudden, you have $35,000 in snake income to waste on more animals. How cool is that? And this is where some people are at. They've been breeding and producing snakes for 10 years, and now they need something to invest in. Not everyone is interested in $10 corns or $5 Leopard Geckos. And expensive animals fills that market. The investor's market. Its not for everyone. But heck, is placing a high dollar amount on a cool-looking snake such a bad thing? Does it affect anyone negatively? At all? I don't think so.

[Corey Woods]

Mykee,

Hopefully my Lesser Platty male breeders 10 females his first year.......but I'm thinking he'll only breed 6..........hopefully he's a breeding machine. No lessers will be sold in Canada in the first year though.........

Corey

[Vengeance]

Everything everyone is saying is exactly the same train of thought I'm going into. Tomorrow I'll be picking up a trio of 100% Het Albino ball pythons. We'll see how that goes, it's my first investment into this community, but my plan is in about 4 years to see a return on that investment. I'm sure the price on Albinos in the next 4 years will drop but I still think it's a good place to start because at least if the project fails I'm not out an absorbent amount of money. From there I hope to move to pie-balds, and so on and so on. Now I'm not stupid enough to think I'm going to be able to make a living out of this, well at least not for another 10 - 15 years, assuming I keep doing this that long. But as a side project, something to do after work, it's an awesome prospect as a side business.

[mykee]

Corey, for that matter, I don't think Platties will ever be at the price point that they'll be purchased in Canada. Corey, here's my plan though, beeen thinking about it since I'd seen your Platty in person. You can have all my females and breed that little sucker until his hemi's throb, get as many Platties out there as you can so that the market becomes so super saturated that the price drops by 25% each successive year. On year....nine, I'll take a trio @ $3753 each. Deal? OR you can have Tania's and my first born son, AND/OR my mother-in-law??

[hhw]

When you do the number, ball pythons morphs are well worth the money you pay for them, as people have already explained. Their estimates have already been quite conservative.

One terrific thing about ball pythons is that it's mostly capital intensive with very low operating costs. If you were in the manufacturing business per say, and your product wasn't selling well. Not only would the money you invested in the plant, machinery, equipment, patents, etc... lost most of their value... you'll be continually hemorrhaging money out your *** until you are forced to sell for well below you acquisition price. With a high end morph ball python, even if you're not having any luck with breeding, it doesn't cost you any more to raise and keep than a normal ball python, so your operating expenses are minimal.

Of course, there's the chance that it will never breed for you... but if you're like any of the other breeders that buy them, you probably have several projects going on at a time. Since any given project can easily give you a rate of return of ten times just in ONE YEAR OF PRODUCTION. So, as long as you have success with one of those projects, you are in the clear. Now, there's a good chance that some of those other 9 projects will work out for you as well, which, writing off acquisition costs all on one project, the other 9 will be pure profit. Not to mention, each project will continue producing offspring for years to come. It's quite conceivable that a breeding project will have a rate of return of 100x over its useful life. I don't know what other types of businesses you've looked at, but that's just FREAKING INSANE!!!

I'm broke, just out of school, and jobless but I've sunk all my money into a pastel project, and I don't regret it one bit. I've just gotten back into herps after graduating, and there's a ton of different herps I want. I could've spent the money I had on several different herps, but I thought to myself... the quickest way I'll be able to afford everything I want is to just put all my money into some pastels now, and then easily pay for everything else once I've produced a few clutches. In the short term, it means less herps, but in the long run, it means a LOT more herps MUCH sooner. I've taken my fair share of commerce courses, and after having thoroughly researched the high end ball python market, I'm absolutely amazed that such a business opportunity can even exist. In a few years, after I've produced a few clutches of pastels, you can guarantee I'll be using the money I make from selling them to buy a higher end morph. Not to mention, I'll have as many of every other herp I'm interested in as I'll feel like.

[ladyluck]

My whole point in starting this forum was pretty much:

Does the design of the snake (it's attractiveness) make it worth more, or does the breeder dictate what is worth more?

I look at that snake in particular, and it may be 'cute' but there are 100 other BP morphs that are Waaaaaaay more attractive, and cheaper at that.

And someone said that those who complain about the price can't afford it, it's not like I have snake envy or anything so quit swingin that one around cause it's old. Congradulations on the millions of dollars you've spent on your snakes. All the power to you! That's your business. But don't assume that WE as a whole cant afford it, cause you sound like a pompous A$$.

Some of us do work chump desk jobs, but they are for more than a few nickels. I laugh my way all the way to the bank every week too!

Snakes are pets and a hobby for me, and for lots of others too.

You know one thing that I learn from this site, is which breeders I would buy from in the future. Some of you are so helpfull and answer so many questions. Others do nothing but put in their boring 2 cents that does nobody any good.

[Tim_Cranwill]

That snake’s price is based on a few things and looks don't play much of a factor.

- That snake is a double homo, and that's not a play-ground insult. It not only carries two genes but it carries two VALUABLE genes. One is co-dominant and the other is dominant.

- That snake is rare. It won't be AS rare OR valuable in the years to come because dozens of breeders will be making them but it will still be rare and valuable.

- That snake is in demand. Buying that snake is more or less like buying your own money printing machine (not that it is ALL about money). You can make 4 types of ball pythons with that one snake (2 of which are worth some big bucks) and that is if you only breed it to a normal.

Like everyone has said, that snake is not going to be a "pet". It will be a breeder/investment... call it what you will. People invest in some crazy stuff. Why not snakes? People have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for ugly paintings. But the thing with that is, those painting aren't going to paint you MORE paintings!!! lol

If breeding snakes is your hobby, why not invest in a couple "high-end" snakes? It will at least cover the cost of your hobby.

[daver676]

I also hope to one day start actually investing in the snake market by purchasing a few rarities of my own. It really is an investment, all be it if there are people out there who will buy what your selling....

Originally posted by Tim_Cranwill
That snake is a double homo

Sorry, but this made me laugh. LOL!!

[MouseKilla]

Understanding the price of anything isn't hard, it always costs exactly as much as the market will pay. No one has the power to arbitrarily set a price and have it stick.

If a breeder sets his price so high that no one will pay it he won't sell anything. It's no good hanging a crazy high price on something if no one buys it and it's not worth anything at all until someone does.

If he sets it too low the people he sells to will flip his product and make a bunch of money. Very quickly the price will match the true market value of that animal whether it's $25 or $5 million. Price isn't just a made up number, it represents the value of the product on the actual market.