Endangered Species (BowSprit) Tortoise, Chersina Angulata (BowSprit)

[(ActivePulse)]

Honestly these two were brought into the Country illegally, not by me or by my request. They were living with people who could not take care of them, and were out to sea for six months of the year. I had to rescue them. I have spoke to the costoms agents about the incident and they assured me that it was ok for me to have them. By saying " It is illegal to bring them into the country but once they are here it is ok to have them" sounds strange, but its true! I have even tried to donate them to the museum of natural history in Halifax Nova Scotia, but they said that they could not keep them because they had their hands full with another tortoise named Guss. I love having them and they are an amazing reptile, but if I could donate them to a Museum that could take very good care of them I would, but I would rather like it if the Museum or Zoo were close to were I live. But until i decide I know these two will be taken care of well and be a blast to have.

ps. I will post some more pics soon if you all want to see some more !
pss. these little buggers are so fast when you see them running around out side of their homes in the grass or if its cold out, run around the apartment. I will try and post a video of them running

[Turtle_Crazy]

Nick,
I am disapointed in you, you knew i didn't know much and you tried to take advantage of that. i'm not dumb just new to reptiles.
i must say you are wrong on the species and the price you had quoted. i had just gotten off the phone with with a very reputable herpetologist :Toirtis-^trust me when i say "HE KNOWS HIS STUFF" Christian Bilou, looked for a good price as i spoke with him and found one on a U.S site for a Hermann's for less than 200 dollars American. You wanted to sell me one for 1500 dollars?! i was this close to saying "yes, where do i pay up?" but thanks to very experienced keepers and breeders, i will not be swindled. Please do not argue with a Herpetologist, who went to school for this knowlege and has had decades of hands on experience with reptiles, and is well connected to breeders, zoos and even helped to write the laws on exotic and wild animals in the Province of Alberta. It makes you look very naive. This is a private message i recieved from a person who does not want to see people getting ripped off:

hey,

Hey there.. Just a warning, I am pretty sure that the tortoises that (Active Pulse) is selling are not what he says they are.. Those tortoises are a species of Testudo, which are the European tortoises.. At most, those tortoises are worth maybe $250 CAD. If he truly brought them in legally (into Canada) he would not be able to sell them like this. Just make sure you know what you're actually buying..

i just have one piece of advice, accept what the experts are trying to tell you, are you a Herpetologist? Well, Toirtis is. oh yeah and look into lowering your price, if i were you i would try to scam someone in your local paper. The less they know the better your "knowlege" will be accepted and of this "reptile expert" you speak of, where does he work? what is his name and credentials?
i am very sorry that whoever sold these tortoises to you, as you said when i chatted with you in messenger (you did not say that you had rescued them) but had them imported from africa yourself- had totally ripped you off too, $800 Dollars is too much for just one Tortoise of the Bowsprit species or of the Hermanns species from what i was told. also if they were imported from africa, i wouldn't be so quick to tell the whole world about that as you can be facing alot of fines and or even jail time! also, two females will not fight like how you indicated they will, if you think they are females, go to your local Herpetologist so it can be sexed correctly

just a fly who escaped the web,

Nicole :medangry:

[Jungle Jen]

1500??? Holy Cripes! I got my Testudo hermanni for 250 canadian, and I thought THAT was expensive. I am curious to know what they are, and I admit I was thinking of inquiring on a price, but all this stuff I'm reading is a bit crazy. (ActivePulse) if you do want a good home I would be thrilled to give one or both that, but only if the price is reasonable.

For all you other tortoise enthusiasts out there, anyone know of male desert torts for sale, or even just owned that might want a date with my female? Gimme a shout if you do.

[(ActivePulse)]

Fine I am not here to argue, I will not post anymore pics until I have a species verifiction to show you all, i am not saying anything about your friend credentials, he may very well be a very experienced repile expert, but to say that they are European tortoise is way off, I am a very good person and would NEVER try and take advantage of you or anyone else! Also your friend is only looking at pictures of the tortoises and that is all! he has not seen them close up, and in one of my last posts I said that they are from Africa , not Europe! I am shutting up now and hopefully in the future you will see that i am not a liar, and would NEVER swindle anyone EVER!!! I am looking for a good home for one of them that is all.......

[Turtle_Crazy]

Nick,

i am Sorry for bruising your pride, but i wish you would explain to me and all those concerned, why you had tried to charge me $1500 Dollars? Admiting your wrong is hard for alot of guys to do, if a lack on info on current prices was your folly, please indicate that and i won't feel you tried to consiously "swindle" me, and therefore we can be pals okay? I Think your girls are Beautiful, healthy looking specimens and i was very impressed by the way you put across to me, that you are definatly looking for the most caring and adequet home for one of your little ladies. I really enjoyed seeing all your pics and will continue to look forward to future posts of her eventual placement, photos and the video you spoke of, She is one of the favorites that i have met, in my search for various, potential chelonian friends.

Take Care and Stay ahead of yo' game! :zi:

[Toirtis]

Originally posted by (ActivePulse)
Man I don't want to argue with you , if you would just look @ the link in my first post, there you will see a fully grown male, that looks identical to mine!
Also you can see other pictures of Chersina Angulata in this link,

http://www.chelonia.org/Chersina_gallery.htm

To be fair, there are some similarities, but they are not the same species.....if you want several excellent, independant opinions on the exact subspecies of your tortoise, I suggest posting to the tortoisetrust international discussion group, where some of the most knowlegeable Testudo ssp. keepers on the planet regularly post.

[Tim and Julie B]

Hi nice looking cage. How do you keep the water clean?

[Toirtis]

Originally posted by Tim and Julie B
Hi nice looking cage. How do you keep the water clean?

I was wondering much the same myself...it would be difficult to drain, and hard to clean with all those riverstones in there.

Also, in all my interest over the tortoises themselves, I failed to notice a planting of Schefflera arboricola in the enclosure, which is a mildly toxic plant if ingested by those torts, and could cause serious problems in such small specimens....you need to remove it immediately.

The UV tube fixture could use a fair bit of lowering, too, as those tubes have an effective penterative depth of only about 16".

[snakers55]

Someone got told... (Active Pulse) you are either not the greatest with reptiles, or are trying to scam people.. Maybe you should use the people of these forums to help you properly identify those tortoises.. Now that we've all agreed that they are not C. angulata, that just narrows it down a little more. Stop fooling yourself if you truly believe that they are C. angulata, as they are clearly not.. Your tortoises also do not require that much water whether they are C. angulata, or a species of Testudo, I would reccomend removing the pond and adding a small water dish, to maximize their living quarters... Those tortoises are not the greatest of swimmers so you are risking their lives. As for what you say about different colour patterns in the same species of tortoise, there are many with the same colours yours have. A few examples are : T. hermanni, T. marginata, T. graeca ssp, G. pardalis, T. (Agrionemys) horsfieldi, and there are many others that are the beige/ black combination. Turtles and tortoises are not as commonly produced with so many different colours, and especially if they were wild caught.. They will look almost like any picture of C. angulata you can dig up. It's ok to be wrong and make mistakes.. You were either guided by sheer ignorance, or someone lead you the wrong way by telling you they were something they weren't. If you would like to sell these 2 tortoises, aim for the $200-300 mark, you'll have better results. Fionally, if they were C. angulata which are CITES appendix 2 (as mentioned) why would you post them on this type of website?? No offense to anyone, but I mean, anyone with the money looking for their first pet could buy them, would you not rather sell them to an experienced Chelonian keeper, or a zoological institute??

[Turtle_Crazy]

here, here, Snakers55!

well said. Again, i would like to thank all of you for looking out for me.

im gonna be a turtle mommy! Thanks to the kind folk at Reptile Rescue Alberta

[Linds]

Hmmm... maybe someone can clarify this for me. I was always under the impression that animals listed as endangered were always registered as Appendix 1 animals? I know appy 2 animals are easily passed across the borders so long as the proper paperwork is done. I was always under the impression it was very difficult to do this with tortoises, as many of them were listed as appy1?

Originally posted by snakers55
Fionally, if they were C. angulata which are CITES appendix 2 (as mentioned) why would you post them on this type of website?? No offense to anyone, but I mean, anyone with the money looking for their first pet could buy them, would you not rather sell them to an experienced Chelonian keeper, or a zoological institute??

The classifieds on this site are utilized by even some of the most experienced keepers in the country. There is no reason any animal shouldn't be advertised on here due to reasons as inadequate care. Seller always has the right to investigate (require proof of knowledge, post on the C/BOI, etc.) and refuse sale to any they deem unfit. Also, just because an animal is listed as critical or endangered, this does not mean the population is endangered, just the status in the wild. For instance Argentine or Dumeril's boas in the states, they are so common they are sold in every shop and in bins at shows for ~$75.

[Wu-Gwei]

The last time I checked CITES, all tortoises are listed under Appendix II, only a few are listed under Appendix I. So, all tortoises are protected (threatened) under CITES.


Cheers,
JJ

[johnnym1972]

Hello ActivePulse and everyone else who thought that I was dead. I have been really sick for the last few months, so I haven't been on the site for quite awhile. ActivePulse, you definitely have two male Testudo Hermanni Boetgerri. If you look at their tails, they are at least three times the length of a females', and the thickness of the tail base is also perfect evidence. You also need to compare the plastral markings to those of mature male Testudo Hermanni Boetgerri's. I compared several of my Testudo Marginata, and Testudo Hermanni tortoises to the pictures of your mis-identified "Chersina Angulata" tortoises, and it is not only obvious to me, but it is also obvious to everyone else that saw the comparison. I hope that you are adult enough to put aside your ego and accept the fact the you do not have what you thought you had.

On another note, I will buy your extra male if you are still selling him. I could use an extra male for my colony, and he would be given the same expert care that all of my Tortoises receive. Please let me know what you think.
Thanks, Johnny.

[johnnym1972]

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[(ActivePulse)]

well Thanks for your information but.. Someone on a other site called the Canadian Wildlife Services and they came to my house with 3 cops 2 game wardens and some computer guy and took my tortoises because "they" think they are a BowSprit species. Hopefully YOU are correct on the species idenification.

Also if you would like to add your comments to Les Sampson (Federal Game Officer) one of the people that came to take them. please feel free to leave him a msg regarding the information that you just posted. Thx . I hope your all right!!! His number is 1-902-426-8606 . if he is not there please leave him a msg thx again. I will get back to you all if you would like to know how it works out!