Okay.... - Page 2

msubigdawg · 06-30-04, 07:56 PM

I am always up for a good disagreement. Sorry for the language just slightly angered. I respect most of the stuff I have seen you post. So its not against you sorry.

Jeff_Favelle · 06-30-04, 08:12 PM

No worries man. This place is the best place to disagree, LOL!

Jeff_Favelle · 06-30-04, 08:23 PM

Quote:

I think a snake is worth what you put into getting it I guess but I dont think you should have to sell it for more because some big breeder will throw a pissy fit if you sell it for less then they do.

This usually never happens. Know why? Because some guy/gal comes to the forums (every forum) at least once a month stating "I'm going to breed this, I'm going to breed that, and I'm going to sell it for cheap, and I'm not in it for the money bla bla bla". Like clockwork. And sure enough, within a couple of months, they fade away, never having bred a thing. That's why breeders of any substance are never worried about them. They are but a blip on the radar. The only market it ever affects is the low low end animals that are SUPER easy to breed. Not only easy, but less time and energy consuimg as well. These are the animals that they have success with. But they're already cheap and the competition is already fierce, so it is but an even SMALLER blip on the radar.

My advice? Work with the animals you LIKE the best. If by luck/chance they breed and you get babies, well trade those babies to get more snakes you like. Maybe by then you'll want a green tree python or a woma or something else that's a few thousand dollars. It sucks to spend an entire paycheck on an animal, so if you can flip snakie money back into your obsession, its all the better!!

Just remember, its all about the animals. Always.

CHRISANDBOIDS14 · 06-30-04, 08:35 PM

Jeff said it!

C.

adamofsound · 06-30-04, 08:49 PM

the best advice given to me since becoming a reptile hobbyist was to make sure I had the housing to keep, and the income to feed entire clutches in case they DONT sell.
I am a lizard keeper, but i think this applys to all keepers.
I breed for fun too, when I sell something it is a bonus, but be prepared to keep them all as pets if you have to.
my collection grows every season.
thanks for looking.

Jeff_Favelle · 06-30-04, 09:07 PM

Exactly Adam. And being a keeper of lizards, YOU know this MORE than anybody!!! Lizards are EATING MACHINES!! Its all they do. Almost as inefficient as mammals, ha ha!!

Glad to see its not just me that thinks its ALL about the animals! Cheers guys!

msubigdawg · 06-30-04, 09:11 PM

o trust me I care about the animals a great deal. I had a summer job at a local pet store that I quit because she was goin to order things like turtles and iguanas. I told her on average those animals arent takin care of and she said she doesnt care. She said it doesnt bother her if the person buys it and lets it go. I had to quit because I can't do that.

Kevin McRae · 06-30-04, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
And Kevin, you say that you just breed "for fun", right? Wouldn't this entail actually having bred something? Anything? Just curious.

I haven't bred anything yet but my tokays and leopards are breeding and should have eggs soon, I'm only 13 so if I'm having my tokays and leos breed thats pretty good!

BTW - The only reason I asked about the BCI's is because I have one already and there was one for sale for not a bad price.

Tim_Cranwill · 06-30-04, 10:53 PM

Well, there's nothing like an opinionated debate to bring the curses out....

lol

For the people who say "I will sell for less..." and "herps are over-priced" and "blah blah blah..." IF and WHEN they EVER get around to breeding something and investing the time, money and care into a project, I think their "outsider" attitude would change....

Just like the people who say "If I had 10 million dollars, I would share with all my friends and family and still keep my job at the library.... and yadda yadda…" that's what you THINK you'd do, but you never know until you're there... There’s nothing wrong with thinking about it or saying it. But just wait ‘til you’re there…

In the end, it’s like Jeff says... It's ALL about the animals. PERIOD.

Tim_Cranwill · 06-30-04, 10:57 PM

As for my first point about breeding common boas in Manitoba, like I told Kevin in an email earlier... for a province with 1 million people and 1/2 the population lives in Winnipeg... where boas are illegal, that doesn't make for much of a market. And it's tough to find people who want to pay shipping on a $75 animal.

And I know of at least two common boa breeders in Manitoba.

By the way, I have met Kevin several times and he is a really nice guy. He is young and enthusiastic about herps and he should be applauded for that. Keep up the passion and interest in herps and keep asking questions Kevin.

BOAS_N_PYTHONS · 06-30-04, 11:00 PM

TIM CRANWILL and JEFF FAVELLE:

I agree with you guys, first and always is the animals, if your thinking breed a reptile to sell babies after and you show very little knowledge of what your getting into, stick to selling lemonaid....lol.

My 2.5 cents.

Cya...

Tony

Tim_Cranwill · 06-30-04, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BOAS_N_PYTHONS
My 2.5 cents.

LOL... Tony, you're one guy I know whose 2 cents IS actually worth 2.5 cents! lol

Jeff_Favelle · 07-01-04, 03:18 AM

Ha ha you guys!

Tony and Tim are right. Think about keeping and enjoying healthy animals first. If they breed and you get healthy babies as a result, then you are further ahead than most and should feel lucky!

hhw · 07-01-04, 03:42 AM

Personally, if anything, I think a lot of herps are underpriced... in most businesses, you either sell enough above cost per product at a sufficient quantity to cover all your overhead and hopefully end up in a tidy profit, or go out of business. However, I get the feeling that a lot of breeders end up selling at below cost (when you put the cost of labour into the equation), because that's the highest price the market will bear, and stay in the business anyway just because they love the herps.

With that said, I am going to say I am going to breed this and that and sell it really cheap but actually do it... since I'll be breeding african house snakes, the rabbits of the snake world :P I'm not sure why they aren't more popular as beginner snakes, especially since they come in a variety of natural morphs, but I digress...

Artemis · 07-01-04, 05:22 AM

Overpriced or underpriced depends on your perspective really. Like myself, I would LOoooove to have a green tree python- particularly one of the amazing speckled ones with blue and green and yellow all over it. However, that snake is easily a grand or more, depending on the breeder, which I could never ever justify spending in a million years on a snake. Part of me says, this dude is nuts trying to sell this snake for sixteen hundred bucks, but then the other part has the reality check and realizes that as long as ANY people are willing to pay that amount for one, then naturally thats what they are going to go for, which leaves me up the proverbial S creek for my green tree python dreams.

This doesnt necessarily mean the snake is overpriced. However rare and hard to come by something is, regardless of its literal material value, it becomes worth more simply based on its unavailability.

As things become less new and cool, and the morph craze changes, then the older morphs, and the ones that will be more common in time, will drop in price. Im counting on this little theory to eventually wind up with an albino ball python =)

It is fair to say the breeders deserve to make a profit, because they are in business and not running herps for pets programs for the populous at large. Plus, breeding is hard work, and takes careful planning and attention if its done right. More power to you guys.

So, when you know what kind of herp you want, research the going rates on it. For the pricier ones I find it can vary as much as 500 dollars... but that kinda makes you wonder WHY, too.

If an animal is out of your price range, its just out of your price range. My family breeds those bloody annoying mini yorkshire terrier dogs, and they go for like 800 bucks a pop. A lot of family friends want free ones, as the smaller ones are hard to come buy and no one wants to actually pay 800 bucks for one, but the breeder costs enccurred are a lot more than anyone thinks, and you never get something for nothing, so if you want a specific animal that you know can be pricey- be prepared to shell out for it. Just like in the dog world, im sure there are plenty of unscrupulous breeders in the herp world, and that old saying "you get what you pay for" couldnt be more true.

But.. if you happen to be a person who likes to sell em cheap and ya have some green tree pythons to get rid of....

Art