Canadian reptile market

[Jeff Hathaway]

Let's not forget that most of our population lives very close to the US border. Given the shipping differences, it is often easier to have stuff shipped to a nearby US city, and then drive over and get it, than to have something shipped within Canada.

That's how I do it. However, I'm not buying super-hypo het-for-invisible whatevers, I'm usually buying fairly cheap native Canadian species that either no one bothers with or no one legally breeds in Canada due to their protected status. I just confirmed getting some more eastern fox snakes:-)

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Scales Zoo]

Well, this is a very interesting thread.

I was gonna make a post last night about the recent changes in the market, but good ol Roy got to it first.

One of the reasons I see people getting stuff from the U.S is for snobbery type of reasons. Sarge, our Great Dane, is from German stock. Whoopee – three are those dogs in Canada, but we have the bragging rights to say he was German bred.

“Yes, I imported them in 2002”

Now many things are available in Canada that weren’t just a few years ago, or at least, we didn’t know if it was because hardly anyone had the Internet. But in all reality, more of the rarer or high end (not necessarily the same thing) is available in Canada now than ever before.

Jim’s idea of a list of species and names of people who are working with them is great. If no one else does it, I might compile it and put it on my website. Not only would it offer people selections, but I bet most of us would learn about things being produced that we didn’t know about. It would also help the Canadian market I think.

If not for ssnakess.com, I wonder what the “market” would look like today. I would guess another forum would have taken its place – but you see what I am saying.

The other thing is websites. I’ll use Big Dan as an example; I hope he doesn’t mind (as he is velly velly big). I know the guy, but just recently found out what kinds of projects he had up his sleeve. Maybe if he’d have a website, I’d have known that already. He had 200 boas this year! I didn’t know that either. People in Canada like to shop, more than they like to buy – that’s been brought up.

Henry Piorun (another guy that could kick my ***) has a fun website. How many of us don’t check it regularly (now that it’s finally been updated again) just to look and window shop over things we might want. There should be more Canadian websites like that in my opinion, I know Henry sells more snakes because of it.

I know lots of people who go to queensnake.com just to look at the larger selection available down there. Sooner or later, all that looking is gonna make someone buy something.

I am proud to say, that all of our snakes we currently own were bought in Canada, I am Canadian and I am proud to support other breeders, and see them do well. I did at one time, however, bring a bunch of colubrids up from the U.S. Some, were not available up here, and others were just really cheap – so I figured I’d get them thrown in the same box while I was at it. Since then, however, the border has been tightened up and the hassles involved are more so. Coincidentally, the snakes were shipped on 9-11, and had to be re-routed cause of crashing planes and such.

That’s all for now

Ryan

[Stockwell]

The problem with breeder registries or whatever you want to call them, is that herpers are traditionally pretty antisocial, or perhaps I should say private.
Things have opened up a bit since computers and the internet, but many herpers are still underground where its safe, and it would be a mistake to think they all even have computers. Ryan, guys like Sayers and Pogue fall into that category. Dr. Phil is also presently pretty much removed from the canuck herp scene, by choice.... I'm sure there are lots more that don't want any part of being officially added to our extended family.
Most certainly I can tell you that there would be a good size group that wouldn't want their name on any internet list, as that would constitute an invasion of privacy.
Herp keeping is still largely a socially unacceptable past time, and in many cases people have things they shouldn't ,and in fact are breaking laws even if only bylaws.., there could still be reprocussions if their activities became public knowledge.

It's been quite a few years since there were any CITES busts,but the RCMP used to show up at collectors homes with warrants looking to see CITES papers. Stuff like that is what drove people underground many years back, because it was generally other herpers that narc'ed on them.

You'll have lots of fun when you try to make a publically accessible list of who is working with what hots. That's the prime example that drives home why a registry will never include some, since there are very few places hots can be kept legally. The same applies to many boid keepers. They are still banned in most municipalities across Canada, as are crocodillians and those keeping such know this, so why incriminate themselves.

Years ago the Ontario Herp society tried to comprise such a list and there was opposition and it never got off the ground. I for one was against it, for the protection of herpers rights to privacy.

We couldn't even get herpers to wear name badges at shows, and come to think of it, why exactly do people use alias' on this site..Its all part of the same condition. Some want annonymity, and some have good reason

Another point is that not all keepers/breeders want their affairs out in the open, because they dont want involvement with other herpers. Some only sell direct to wholesalers or export and this is done to avoid the entire social aspect and hassle of direct selling , and also to keep below local radar.
A registry would never be complete or accurate, but if it's to be tried at all I would suggest it only be compiled with permission in writing from everyone listed. That would take a bit of work, and is largely why it doesn't exist already.
The exact same arguments apply to species and bloodline registries and is why they generally never get off the ground.

Sure it works with horses and dogs and stuff society accepts, but standing up to be counted is a bit different with Reptiles

[Tim_Cranwill]

Roy, then those individuals wouldn't be on the list... no one would be forced on or HAVE to disclose every species they work with to be on it. It could be done strictly on a volunteer basis.

I would go on...

[Stockwell]

Tim, then I think we're on the registry right now. Just hit the members button up top, read the profile, and check the gallery or do searches on species.
I just plugged in "conicus" guess what?
Some dork named stockwell, seems to work with them...
Some good herper in Denmark is also producing them and gals named Katt, Silke and Kristen M have a couple

[Tim_Cranwill]

Well us resourceful folk can usually find what we are looking for. lol

I guess it would be more for finding people close to where you live or working with the more rare species.

[Scales Zoo]

Those are good points Roy, but like Tim said - a list like that would have to be made by people submitting and chosing to be on it.

I'd never think of making a list and putting a bunch of recluses on it without them asking to be on it.

In fact, I probably won't take on the list, but I think it is a good oportunity for someone who is looking for traffic on their site - cause I'm sure they would get a lot of it.

Ryan