Nutritional comparisson of pinky rat to fuzzy mouse - Page 2

Auskan · 03-26-04, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HeatherK
When you're looking at an item's values, percentages are different than grams, yes, however anytime you feed (or eat) twice a serving size let's say, the body still gets double the amount of whatever is in just one. It doesn't matter whether the figures are expressed in percentages, grams, ounces, etc.

Agreed. However in this case, where the examples given were a 3g mouse pinky & a 10g rat pinky, you would have to feed 3 mouse pinkies to equal the 1 10g pinky. So yes, you would be feeding 3 times the amount of protein as you would if you only fed 1 mouse pinky, but it would still only be 65% of the total meal. So its still more important to look at percentages - you can't just say you double or triple the amount of protein when the food item is 1/3-1/2 the size.

marisa · 03-26-04, 02:03 PM

Heather brought up a good point.

You guys can go over and over this but in reality without guidlines as to what snakes need nutrionally, its a waste of time IMHO. Does anyone have this info, know where we can see it, or anyone working on it?

Marisa

Tigergenesis · 03-26-04, 03:42 PM

I've not been able to find any answers to that question. I always just see the 'feed prey the size of the widest part of the snakes body' type rule.

Until that information is available, I just think it's a waste of time and energy for people to keep debatiing the 'which is better, mice or rats' arguement. There just isn't much difference in their nutritional qualities to really matter. Now if we were to find out how much protein, fat, etc they need then we could make use of the nutritional breakdowns to determine what's best for our snakes.

HeatherK · 03-26-04, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Auskan
So yes, you would be feeding 3 times the amount of protein as you would if you only fed 1 mouse pinky, but it would still only be 65% of the total meal.

I think I see what you mean now.

Marisa, I totally agree. I'm a little surprised it seems there isn't much in the way of information on their nutritional needs. I wonder if my exotics vet could point me in the right direction. Might have to send him an email and see.

I'm thinking because of how snakes eat (whole animal), it's harder for their diets to lack in nutrients, and perhaps why there doesn't seem to be much information on exactly what they need. Which is why I didn't think twice about feeding rat pinks instead of more developed mouse fuzzies, then finding out only from the vet that the snake may be hypocalcemic got me concerned. It's usually the keeper's fault when there is a problem with the diet, so it's frustrating when there is a lack of information.

Tigergenesis · 03-27-04, 06:59 AM

HeatherK,
You bring up an interesting point that I have heard before - that the age of the prey (particularly when feeding younger snakes) is more important than worring about whether it's a mouse or rat. For a young snake the calcium offered by an older mouse would seem more important than a younger rat. A while back I read someone say their breeder alternates feeding rat pinkies and older mice to their young snakes since it's an important time for growth.

Wizwise2000 · 03-27-04, 11:43 AM

http://www.practical-pet-care.com/ebooks_snakes.php

I found this while looking this morning, will keep looking for something solid.

Shane

HeatherK · 03-27-04, 06:13 PM

Tigergenesis- I was thinking of doing what the breeder you mentioned does (alternate rat pinks/mouse fuzzies) to cover all bases. I didn't know anyone who did it for that reason, very interesting. You'd think they would come across, and thus take both in the wild.

Shane, that book looks interesting, thanks. I wonder what the nutrition section is like.

Tigergenesis · 03-28-04, 08:59 AM

Yeah, you figure they get quite a variety in the wild.

Meat Man · 03-28-04, 02:57 PM

So basically, which is better overall, a rat pinky or a mouse fuzzy?

HeatherK · 03-29-04, 11:11 AM

I still haven't been able to find a (working) link to a chart that compares both, with calcium/phosphorus percentages. It's probably best for now, to alternate with both if your snake is on rat pinks.

The information I could find, just from 'rat or mouse' discussion, is rats are a better food source.

Tigergenesis · 03-29-04, 11:52 AM

Quote:

The information I could find, just from 'rat or mouse' discussion, is rats are a better food source.

But none of those discussions included any hard evidence - just regurgitated statements of 'rats are better'.

One would assume that perhaps older prey would be better for a young growing snake as it would have more calcium while younger prey would have more fat. But I think alternating between a rat pinky and a mouse fuzzy (for example) would be a good practice. At least it seems to make good sense. I'm more apt to buy the 'age of prey' theory as opposed to the 'rats are better' idea- there just isn't much difference in protein. But it would seem that calcium differences would be greater depending on the age of the rodent

Auskan · 03-29-04, 12:24 PM

If nothing else, until there is more data, I like the idea of alternating. I've been doing that anyway, as I breed both rats & mice, and what I feed my corns kind of depends on what I have available.

marisa · 03-29-04, 02:06 PM

At this point in herping corns have been raised, bred and grown for 30 years at this point on mice alone. Generation after generation have been successfully grown on mice. I feed mine rats at this point, but thats because for me rats are convienent. Before this I had raised up four corns, and bred them on mice alone.

I really don't think switching back and forth is needed. Do it if you'd like, but a health must? No, not in my opinion at all, just a case of "over thinking" IMHO

They do fine on mice, or rats. That's the one thing thats a fact.

Marisa

Tigergenesis · 03-29-04, 03:06 PM

Quote:

just a case of "over thinking" IMHO

Ditto!

HeatherK · 03-29-04, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tigergenesis
But none of those discussions included any hard evidence - just regurgitated statements of 'rats are better'.

The 'hard evidence' I've heard is that the rat fed snakes in collections just grow larger on rats. Hard to be scientific, but with rats having more to them nutritionally (and mice apparently have a higher fat percentage) it makes sense. I'm not sure how much it effects genetic growth and final size, but I'm sure if anything, more nutrition would help them reach their genetic potential. I was also referring to older mice and rats. The switching back and forth, I don't think is needed unless it's between rat pinks and mouse fuzzies - in that case who knows, but to be certain the snake is getting the calcium it needs when we don't know otherwise, it definately can't hurt and might even benefit a growing snake.