Pine vs. Aspen - Page 2

sapphire_moon · 12-20-03, 03:32 AM

mykee what are you feeding your rats? I have been on a "pet rat" website and have learned from a few people that rats can get protiene (sp?) scabs if fed anything over 15% protiene. I have a bag of ol' roy that I am going to finish off but after that it's nutro light dog food that has 14% protiene supplemented with kitten formula (For the mother) and fresh fruits and veggies.

mykee · 12-20-03, 04:53 AM

Mazuri 6F. I've heard the same thing, but one would surmise that a formulated rat diet would be perfect for rats...no?

Oliverian · 12-20-03, 07:58 PM

Yea, I've noticed that a high protien diet causes skin irritations and rashes, too. I used to feed my rats just ol' roy, but after I switched to a mix of dog food, oats, pasta, and seeds it seemed to eliminate this problem.

I found a really interesting site while looking for information. It's kind of a long read, but if you don't want to read it all, you can just skim it and get the main points. I read the whole thing, and found it very interesting. It's about how pine CAN be used for rodent bedding without ill effects. I'd actually like to know your opinions on this, as I recently switched to pine because it's much cheaper.
Here is the link:
http://clk.about.com/?zi=1/XJ&sdn=ex...eo%2FPine.html

-TammyR

sapphire_moon · 12-20-03, 11:37 PM

Sometimes! Just find out the protiene *sp* content. if it's over 14%-15% then that could be the cause for the scabs, if not then mites, lice, or internal parasites........I'm assuming you quaratined her just in case it is something bad that can jump to snakes (as i'm sure you know thats not usually the case) I hope everything gets better for you and you find out whats wrong with her.

Well pine can be used. I would be afraid of the phenols being frozen on the coat and being digested by the snake. Also housing a rat on pine for a long time can cause something called bumble foot. As can housing rats on wire floors.......I've got my breeders on aspen shavings for now, until I run out, then I'll go get something like care fresh.

Oliverian · 12-21-03, 07:03 PM

Sapphire, aren't pine and aspen basically the same shape? If so, how could pine cause bumblefoot and not aspen? I'm guessing the aspen is softer?

Where did you get the information? I'd like to read the site if you have it.

Thanks.
-TammyR

Linds · 12-22-03, 12:25 AM

Hmmm... many years ago I used to house pet rats on pine (now it's only Carefresh for the pets), and I never encountered any "bumblefoot" as a result. I even had a female breeder live in to her 6th year. Admittedly, none of the rest had as great a lifespan. I've almost always fed my rats a high protein diet. The only exception is my two current pet rats. They are fed mostly grains and veggies, with dog food once a week. They also get table scraps such as leftover chicken, bones, bread, pasta, etc. from time to time. The one developed scabs, and then when I retired the other, a few months later a few tiny ones appeared on him, though not near as many as the other

No parasites or fungal infections. As soon as I get a hold of some, I'm going to try them on grapefruit seed oil (diluted well). Funny though how the animals housed on pine and fed dog food almost exclusively, showed no skin problems (although they do sometimes get respiratory problems that don't really have any impact on their production), and the ones kept on Carefresh and fed a varied, low protein diet developed them.

Tammy,
Pine is softer than aspen.

sapphire_moon · 12-22-03, 02:45 PM

I don't think they are. And my aspen shavings are tiny, like little slivers of it. My pine shavings are like little square pieces of wood.

it is a "pet rat" type of site....http://www.fancy-rats.co.uk/informat...litter.chapter this is about the toxic part of it..... and another one from the forum part. http://www.fancy-rats.co.uk/communit...pic.php?t=4335

I retract my statement about the bumble foot, I was tired when I wrote it and was thinking of wire floors......I'm sorry.

I think (I'm probably not right!) that real meat, like chicken and chicken bone in the whole (not ground up with other things) has more protiene in it.... Could be wrong, and probably am! Just a thought.....if you switched their diet immeidietly from dog food to the varied low protiene diet it, some of them could have been allergic to something, or got severly stressed from the move and the diet change all at once...But again I could be wrong.....

How long does it take for a new breeding pair to start breeding???( extreme small scale for now, just 1.1, I figure if they have 8-12 kits a month then I will be set for my snakes, for now!) lol. I've got my first pair, I'm waiting for them to give me some food! lol....

Oliverian · 12-22-03, 10:19 PM

Quote from the first site you posted, sapphire.

Quote:

Pine and Cedar shavings are one of the most commonly seen litters but in fact, there is evidence that suggests they are harmful to the health of rats and other small animals.

Now I am honestly very interested in this. Is there any actual documented proof of these woods causing resperatory illness? Or has anyone experienced it with their rats?

Quote from Linds:

Quote:

Tammy,
Pine is softer than aspen.

Ok, thanks. I was just commenting on that because sapphire stated that pine gave them bumblefoot. (oops, its all good.)