how do you all think a......

[Neo]

no personal attacks but we all say we want to start businesses after seeing all those horrible businesses but in the end u become the businessman/woman urself and then u have to start relying on quantity over quality to stay in business and before u know it u dont give a care about the ones u sell cause the labor costs too much and u cant find dedicated employees.

another thing to remember is that the owners aren't able to sell these animals, in many cases rescues won't take them, zoo's and other animal display places don't want them either. If you really wanted to help these giants you would be better starting a group to protest petstores that sell so many to folks that haven't got a clue as to what they are in for. It's the kid that drags mom & dad in and the sales person that tells them it's a good starter snake getting only 6ft(they forget to say that is only the first year) that need to be educated. Giants are a wonderful hobby for the few dedicated keepers, the breeding on retic morphs is admirable, but the breeders deal out most of these animals to specialists. If you want to start another short lived rescue go for it, if your looking for free snakes doesn't matter to me mine are here until I or they die. I don't think you'll find much support here especially being so young. You want to get a loan, go for it, bank with repo your stuff like anyone else's when you default. Give yourself a few years to mature a little and look back on this idea as a bad one.

[Jeff_Favelle]

A reptile rescue dedicated to Burmese Pythons is a sure fire way to lose a TON of money. No question. It would be a nice altruistic endeavour, but it will NOT make you any money. You won't even break even. Not even close.

[liltattyprinces]

This is just MHO i take in rescues on a small scale started about 2 yrs ago just by fluke, I took in two emanciated corns, the guy that had them was trying to feed them on crickets, He didn't like mice....lol .... Well long story short we now have 2 happy healthy corns but have taken in others as well we have only lost 1 but that was sooo hard to deal with.. The last few we have taken in were emanciated BP's tonnes of time and money and one still died with all that effort we put in, All the $$$ to pay for vets app ect, come out of my pocket. I've had to start turning ppl away and giving them info to a reputable rescue. As i have 2 kids i am raising by myself i can no longer afford it all the time. Not to mention the space requirements. Plus i have my and the kids pets to care for and feed. It is very nice of you to want to do this but your still a kid with lots of time. Grow up gather some experience and then see maybe in 10 or 15 yrs time if your financially able to do this.just my 0.02 don't take anything i said the wrong way please it just that as a kid you should enjoy growing up and not be burdened with such a responsibility.

Laura-Lee L

[Jeff Hathaway]

I'm with Jeff- it's hard enough to break even with a reasonable business plan. Rescuing burms is simply a more fun way to lose money than burning it or flushing it done the toilet. Just as certain, however, in my opinion. 'Rescuing' *any* animal(s) is not a money-making venture. Every rescue, shelter, etc. that I know of depends upon the largesse of the owner, or donations from the public. Most of the successful ones are non-profit or charitable groups, and while they do have some income, it is usually a struggle just to survive, never mind repay loans and make money.

My advice- don't get a significant loan when you're 18. Perhaps a small one to start a summer business to operate while you're in school getting an education. Business experience is never a bad thing, even if you lose a bit of money here and there. Just don't sink yourself into a major blunder with a 37 year (who gives loans like this anyway) repayment schedule without trying some small steps first!

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[reptile171]

you just dont know.....one day you will.

[Jeff Hathaway]

Is that directed at me?

It just so happens I do know a thing or two.

Regarding business: I started my first business when I was 14. I stored fish huts and snowmobiles in the summer, since I grew up on a lake. Costs were virtually nil, it took a bit of time but not much, and I enjoyed the few hundred bucks I made each year.

I started my next business when I was 20, while in university; a summer day camp for kids. I got a $3000 loan through a gov't agency to do so. As it turned out, it took more than $3000 to get started and I made <$1000 that first summer. This wasn't particularly a problem, however, as it was meant to be a long term thing that my family would be involved with. I sold the business to my father for $1 at the end of the year and he wrote off the loss against his income. Subsequently, we incorporated and I became president and 1/3 owner, along with my siblings. Four years later, we were accredited by the provincial body that governs camps, had ~35 kids in program all summer long, a staff of 10 (not counting us) and finally, we were breaking even. Then a neighbour complained, we got in a year long, $14K zoning brawl with the municipality, and lost in a tie vote while the mayor was away in Florida (do I sound bitter?). We shut the camp down and that was the end of that.

Near the end of the camp, Jenny and I started Sciensational Sssnakes!! (1994). Still going strong today; even had our first full time employee last summer. 200+ programs annually covering virtually all of Ontario (our first ever shows in NW Ontario are already booked for next summer).

I built ponds and custom aquariums with another company from '96-'98. Started a new company doing the same in '99 with two partners. A whole new ballgame- construction contracts, etc. Made some money but had partner troubles and shut the company down when I moved north to Orillia. Still resolving partner issues (including fraud/theft by one) and will likely end up in court to resolve it.

Our new business, Scales Nature Park, is under development, and will hopefully open in a limited capacity in 2004. It will be a 4500 sq ft public educational facility dedicated to reptiles, amphibians and fish of Ontario, and related ecological issues.

So, like I said, I know a few things about being in business, and have covered quite a gamut- sole proprietorships, partnerships, corporations. I've made money, and I've lost money. I think I'm fairly qualifed to give advice in this area, and actually get consulted by friends quite a bit.

Now I've had more businesses than rescued burms, but put me down for 3 of those. One from an animal control department and two from an owner who couldn't keep them. Nine boa constrictors, a couple of monitors, and various other things as well, but we're just talking burms here. We found a home for one burm. We still have 2, and we use them in our educational programs (i.e. please don't buy these in pet shops). I hope they never produce eggs but if they do, I won't hatch them- why contribute to the problem? Although they aren't too much work, they do take up a fair chunk of cage space, and I will soon be building them a 6'x8'x6' enclosure. Imagine if we took in lots more... and we have turned down quite a few, as well as retics, etc. Don't forget the staff you will require to manage the adults as well. If, by chance, you end up with an 18 footer (or bigger), you will need at least 3-5 people on hand to manage it safely. The costs involved in doing this are obvious- caging, heating, lighting, feeders, handling equipment, cleaning supplies, staff(!), insurance, advertising, etc. What is less obvious is where the income will come from. Will you charge money for people to come through and look at burmese pythons? Even in a stellar location, I doubt that enough people would come often enough, and pay enough, to cover your costs. You could supplement by selling T-shirts, etc. but still not a major money-maker. Oh yes, you could breed them and sell the babies. However, rescued burms tend not to be unsual pattern morphs, so you'll end up with lots of normal burms and maybe a few albinos. What do they wholesale for these days??? Not much. I can't see how you'd recoup the thousands of dollars you would need to spend to make it happen. But if you don't believe me, try writing an actual business plan, and I would be happy to review it for you.

Like I said, a fun way to throw away wads of cash, assuming that you're into big snakes:-)

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[JeffT]

What exactly do u mean by "you just dont know.....one day you will" ?? Do you seriously think you can do all this even after what all these people had said? I mean a burm can go for about $50, correct. Then there is his caging, food,oh yeah and every now and then you can expect to pay $300 or so for a vet trip or check up. You must be thinking that you can house 2-4 animals per cage, wrong, 1 to a cage unless breeding. That mean you will need quite a few LARGE cages. You will need some pretty major funding and donations.

Im noty trying to pumble you here but read the posts man.