Calcium supplementation for baby snakes.

[RepTylE]

Which probably constitute the bulk of available feeder animals . Who knows where the store gets the mice and rats and how long they have been refrigerated.
I doubt that many people will argue the point that long term storage degrades the quality of the meat. So there goes your food quality.

And just to add one more thought, the argument that captive feeder insects need to be supplemented because they don't get the variety of nutrients as their wild equivalent may be true but then rats and mice in captivity are fed a balanced diet and get little or no exercise so it would lead me to believe that they might not be completely nutritionally sound either. How much of their body mass is nothing more than fat?

[Linds]

Unless the rodents are malnutritioned, they are still complete items. They still have all the necessary vitamins and minerals requireed. Whether the values (fat% protein% etc) have been altered to one degree or another in captivity isn't significant enough and will not malnutrition any snake. Same with any other whole items such as lizards and amphibians. All of these animals have similar enough physical makeup that they can be considered complete items when fed to one another. Insects are drastically different in design and are lacking a lot of what the higher functioning animals have and need. So even when we feed them well, we still cannot make them complete items.

[marisa]

I myself do NOT add anything. I have been and still am slightly afriad of overloading any reptile with powdered vitamins. It seems a little too hard to know exactly how much is getting eaten or how many times to do this, etc. Even for my lizards, I prefer a serious gut load over dusting, although I do of course dust. Just less than some people.

As for the snakes I also do not add anything BUT a very well known corn snake breeder with a large website (dont like to mention names, you know how it is) often advocates dusting pinkies and other prey items for his corns. He uses nutrapreen (i think) and one other additive to this. He says wild mice would be getting a far more varied diet than a captive raised one and in his 20+ years of cornsnake breeding he has always used dusting and always will because he feels some captive snakes have deficenies.

Not to say its right or I am even thinking about it, but there is definitly a school of thought pointing to doing so.

Maybe next year I will split up my corn clutches and feed half dusted and half non dusted? hehehehe

Marisa

[Syco]

[i]Originally posted by marisa
Maybe next year I will split up my corn clutches and feed half dusted and half non dusted? hehehehe

Marisa [/B]

Marisa,
you know that might be an interesting thing to do. I guess then you would be able to tell if it makes any difference.

[marisa]

Well kinda. But so many other factors could be at play it wouldn't really be very scientific and it wouldn't be proof. But interesting anyways.

Marisa

[RepTylE]

I know that i have been poking away at this topic but it is only because I want to know. I research and dig for info. I want to know that I am doing the best for my animals . I hope that I didn't ruffle any feathers in the process. My only intent was to debate points and test hypotheses. I am not done yet. There is information out there and I'll read it and draw my own conclusions as have everyone that has participated and read this thread. I appreciate the input from all.

[IMO]

Here's a study that has a comparative analysis of nutrition amoung many animals used as food sources, including domestic mice and rats at various ages. Check out the tables at the end of the study especially under the heading of mineral composition. The figures given for calcium content do not differ appreciably.

Big Mike makes a very good point. "We don't know what food the mice or rats were raised on." This is really the crux of the matter. Nutrition for the snake is partly related to what the mice or rat was fed and the age of the mice or rat at the time of consumption. The study seems to support this when you look at the various tables and compare the specific ages of the rat and mouse.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/Who...nal02May29.pdf

[RepTylE]

Well unless you raise several test samples and compare the results, you wouldn't produce proof that people will accept and even after doing all that research there would still be people that wouldn't accept the data.
I was more interested by alot of responses where they were so against supplementing. I would have thought that people's response would be more like, " light supplementation won't do any harm so try it if you like".
However the response was so negative. I was only suggesting a little calcium powder every third or fourth feeding (which I am going to do). At worst it will have no effect. It's the at best scenario that I am interested in investigating.

All in all this has been an interesting topic.

[Slannesh]

I agree that gutloading for any snake or lizard is by far the better way to go... I don't raise Rats as I have only one Ball python I do raise mealworms and crickets for my leopard geckos and they eat very well, fresh veggies every day, and varied substrates for the mealworms and good all around calcium enriched feed for the Crickets. My Leos seem to like them, but I haven't had them all that terribly long yet so I can't make any definitive answers.

I do occasionally throw a pinch of reptile vitamin in when i'm feeding my Ball Python. Just a little extra kick every second or third feeding or so.

[daver676]

Originally posted by Slannesh
I do occasionally throw a pinch of reptile vitamin in when i'm feeding my Ball Python. Just a little extra kick every second or third feeding or so.

What type of reptile vitamin do you use? I wouldn't mind spicing up my feeders every few feeedings.