So mad I could Vomit with rage!!!! - Page 2

Sunrunner · 11-02-03, 11:50 AM

I could state my opinion and say that I should be able to keep my 18 foot retic in my babies room but it doesnt make me right or put my child in less danger because it is MY oponion there are things to be debated and things that are just plain facts.
and yes i know my example is very extreme it IS just an example.

ohh_kristina · 11-02-03, 11:52 AM

I agree with you on that point. You have to understand, I believe in feeding snakes when they are hungry & more than just once a month. But, it's not WRONG if someone is feeding their snake once a month and they continue to stay healthy. If the snake is starving, underweight, etc, then YES it is wrong!! That snake could be perfectly healthy for all we know. That is all that I am saying.

Slannesh · 11-02-03, 11:55 AM

Well considering it's getting WAY less than pretty much everyone i've ever talked to or read about has recommended to feed a BP of that size i'm fairly confident in saying that it's not as healty as say, my snake, that I take care of.

I think it's pretty safe to say that the snake in question is underfed at best, and if they can't be bothered to feed it properly I shudder to think at what else isn't getting done.

And as an aside, When you have a difference of opinion with someone and you completely ignore every point they make and just keep on trucking with the same thing over and over again, it's a lecture not a discussion.

ohh_kristina · 11-02-03, 11:58 AM

Of course it's not as healthy as your snake. And by healthy, I mean fat and happy. It is true that feeding less is sometimes associated with neglect, and that is a sad thing (and hopefully not true in this case!). Hence at the beginning of the thread I was saying that someone should have informed this man about his snake.

Ontario_herper · 11-02-03, 12:00 PM

Sunrunner... if 1 rat for my BP is not enough why is it still alive? Please answer this question. You're full of it! If you look at the natural history of these animals it is clear that they have a low metabolism in turn, do not eat as much as the average snake. Snakes such as morelia have a higher metabolism so they require more food. This is very evident by the shape of the body. Why do you think BP as so thick? Because they chase rodents around 24/7 NO! Because they are oppotunistic feeders and in turn may not eat very often.

BP in the wild and in captivity may not eat for months (because of their environment and choice) is this cruel? Should you chase these snakes around in the wild and make sure they eat every 7-10 days? It is a fact that many herpers over feed there animals. Some do it to get an animal up to breeding size as quick as possible and others do it out of ignorance.

Slannesh..... Ease up on the caresheets.

"Ntice I haven't jumped all over you for feeding your snake every 10-12 days instead of 7-10. A couple of days here and there or even a week I could see as different snakes being different."

You've got to be kidding me. You're talking about a difference of two days. That is just absurd!

And the comment about the feeding of a dog is also ridiculous. You seem to be relying way too much on other people's information rather than your own experience.

Slannesh · 11-02-03, 12:20 PM

So hey, since you only feed your poor snake once a month, how old is it? How long have you had it? How long is it and what does it weigh? I'm curious, just how stunted and sicky it is.

Heh, yeah I suppose the last 6 years of keeping my ball python healty and well fed is no experience at all... Nevermind the many other species iv'e kept personally and observed over the years.

It is because of their low metabolism that you can keep reptiles on a starvation diet in many cases for years. That does not make them healty by any stretch of the imagination.

I said in a previous post that my snake has not always eaten every 7 days. There was a time she didn't eat for almost two months. I was concerned of course, because it was a chance in routine for her, so I made adjustments and eventually moved her to a bigger enclosure, she started to eat just fine almost immediately after. Has ever since.

If the snake chooses not to eat a meal or even several meals it's not a big deal provided that it's healthy and well fed to begin with.

Ontario herper- I'll ease up on the caresheet when you ease up on the stupid. Have you spent much time observing Ball Pythons in the wild? I know I haven't, so how do you have any idea how often they manage to eat? I certainly have no idea.

So I draw on my own comparitively meagre experience and the experience of others who have been keeping these snakes for years. I read several dozen caresheets long before I ever purchased my snake, the fact that she's pretty much bang on for average length and weight tell me I didn't horribly screw up in raising her.

Did you even read the rest of the posts? we're talking about a difference of 7-10 days VS 28-31 days or more. The comment you quoted me was me telling her I agreed that not every single Ball Python in the world absolutely MUST be fed every 7-10 days religiously or it will die a horribly painful death. THAT would have been absurd

The comment about the dog was to illustrate a point. I notice you take a page from kristina by ignoring every valid point I made about temperatures, and poisonous substrate. Makes it sort of hard to debate anything with you.

Regardless, I think anyone who bothers to read this thread will get the point that feeding an adult Ball Python only once per month might keep them alive for a time but it's certainly not the way to have a long lived, healty one.

Scotty Allen · 11-02-03, 12:27 PM

A wonderful, sound sensible post David, good on ya'. There's an awfully lot of grossly over fed captive snakes (and other herps) out there, maybe someone will learn something here.

Invictus · 11-02-03, 12:41 PM

Well, this has turned into quite the debate. Far be it from me to pass up on a debate.

I'm with Slannesh on this one. Feeding your BP once a month is horrible care, in my opinion. If your BP is not hungry, it will not eat. But how do you know if it IS hungry? Does it tell you? Does it tap on the glass a certain way? NO! If it eats, it's hungry. But you will never know this if you are only offering it a meal once a month. If you are offering it a meal every week and it only takes every second meal, then you know your BP likes to eat every 2 weeks. But if he eats like a champ when you feed him once a month, well DUH! It's probably STARVING by then! You are doing your snake a sever injustice by not at least offering a prey item at MOST every 2 weeks. Any longer than that, and you shouldn't be keeping a ball python.

Vanan · 11-02-03, 01:03 PM

Just had to add my 2 cents just so that this isn't one sided. I have to agree with Scotty and D Smith on this one. I personally feed my ball python (male) only once every 6 weeks! Man am I cruel! This is cos he's older and he's a male. Keep in mind this is the routine we've refined over a few years now. Remember, snakes don't get hungry per se. They are ruled by their metabolism. A warm snake will need more food. THis is not to say either is right or wrong.

BTW, Slannesh, it may be you who is misinformed about ball pythons in the wild. Many think just cos a snake eats, breeds and grows with a certain set of temps and humidity, immediately it becomes the way it should be in the wild. WRONG! I challenge any breeder who argues so. Anyone. Snakes, most of them are very forgiving in their husbandry. Here's a case study. Take your beauty snakes for example. Let's go even further to single out the Taiwans. People have bred them and raised them at temps similar to cornsnakes. They grow up to 6ft in a year! Are you trying to tell me that Taiwan has your typical Florida climate?! Or are you saying that a snake to grow 3/4 of it's full length in 12months is normal?! Remember same thing here. Higher temps, higher growth, longer snake in shorter time (with most species, some are too fragile though). Just because something works doesn't mean it's right!

I guess it's all about which is right. Keeping snakes as they would be in the wild or making it convenient for us and changing what their used to. I guess being humans it's just natural to change our environment before changing ourselves. *sigh*

Vanan · 11-02-03, 01:05 PM

Quote:

But how do you know if it IS hungry? Does it tell you? Does it tap on the glass a certain way? NO!

Erm...ever noticed your snake starting to move around being restless. It's what we usually call foraging behaviour.

JonD · 11-02-03, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vanan
Erm...ever noticed your snake starting to move around being restless. It's what we usually call foraging behaviour.

Actually, it 's quite easy to know if a snake is hungry just by observing it's daily behavior. That might be harder to see for the one's who reside in rubbermaids.

mykee · 11-02-03, 01:48 PM

The equivalent of a BP eating once a month would be humans being on a diet. We're getting what we need, just not enough of it. BP's can SURVIVE on said 'diet' but why? MOST of us have the resources to feed our snakes as often as we wish. Why would someone only feed their BP's every 4 weeks, or even every 6 weeks as someone up on the thread mentioned? Either ignorance, laziness, or both. Period. If you took on the initial responsibility of purchasing the animal, it remains your responsibility to feed it. Not starve it. To do anything else is wrong.

Katt · 11-02-03, 02:14 PM

Quote:

even every 6 weeks as someone up on the thread mentioned?

Laziness? Lack of resources? I think not. Ramses (the bp in question) was Vanan's first snake and he's had plenty of resources of time and food to feed and care for him. Ramses is an old male bp. Feeding him every six weeks, is Ramses choice. He won't eat more often than that and it's not like we haven't tried!

Please, don't start the insults without proper knowledge of the situation at hand.

Ontario_herper · 11-02-03, 02:20 PM

Lets clear something up for the less educated!

Several people have been throwing around the term starving. They have been insisting that by feeding my BP monthly I am "starving" this poor poor helpless animal.

According to the Webster's dictionary starving means: to die from lack of food.

Perhaps you can take your claims of my "starving" ball python to the next PETA meeting! Perhaps you will get more sympathy from them.

I dare one of these "moral", "responsible", "non-ignorant", and "humane" keepers to feed there BP only once a month. See what happens. You snake will no doubt lose some weight. And I bet you'll end up with a snake with a healthier weight that will live much longer.

So dare I say that the people who over-feed their snakes are un-ethical and ignorant? Well I guess I just did!

it's nice to see that Scotty and Vanan will have snakes that will live to be over ten years in age.

Slannesh.... I'll try not to take your comment about me being stupid too seriously. Some how that comment seems like words that used to get thrown around when I was in grade 1. I guess that says something about you!

Vanan · 11-02-03, 02:55 PM

Don't mean to pursue this further as I believe Dave has said enough for me but...

Quote:

The equivalent of a BP eating once a month would be humans being on a diet.

could I take it that you're doing research on a comparison of caloric input and output on humans and snakes? If not, please do not make uneducated claims like that. Btw, last time I checked the reason people were on a diet was to be healthy