How do you handle your "not-so-hot" hots? - Page 2

Stockwell · 09-26-03, 12:09 PM

Vanan, my hogs don't get held at all.. They are all face grabbers, possibly the result of keeping them in a rack system, which only opens for one reason(food). That tray even moves a wisker, and those things are right pushing their snouts at the crack...I've had mine leap right out of the trays with their mouths open.. They chomp me, hooks , gloves whatever is there they'll bite it, even water bowls
I have been bitten by H. nasicus several times, but I get them off damn fast, and have never had any reaction at all...
I treat them with respect however and simply avoid handling them. I use hooks and gloves occasionally but I generally just give them a mouse, then move them when their mouths are full

Vanan · 09-26-03, 01:53 PM

See that's the crazy feeding response I'm talking about. Maybe it does have something to do with rack systems. Cos I've noticed a better feeding respose with alot of my guys since moving to racks. Maybe something to do with more light coming in when opened?

Mustangrde1 · 09-26-03, 03:13 PM

Dr Fry.

I know one of the members keeps the Jacksoni and has me on a quest to find a pair as well. I will call him tonight and have him e-mail you directly. He and I both have been looking all over the web and talking to anyone that has even heard of them.

Scott

Dr. Bryan Fry · 09-26-03, 04:15 PM

Fangs for that mate, I appreciate it. We had planned on including them in the study but the airline froze one of the boxes during one of the shipments.... the one that of course included the T. jacksoni as well as a couple nice mambas.... the bastards.

Cheers
B

Mustangrde1 · 09-26-03, 05:09 PM

Dr Fry what species of Mamba are you looking for you might try Ray Hunter I know as of earlier this week he had some very nice greens.

Scott

Scales Zoo · 09-26-03, 05:54 PM

I free handle all of our hognose snakes, except for one we had that always puffed and striked. I'd use a hook or whatever for that one.

We had diadem snakes (Spalerosophis) once. I had read that their bites had caused people to go to the hospital (after we brought them home).

They were pure evil, we had 3 of them. When all 3 would imitate a saw scaled viper - it sounded like a steam engine.

They intimidated me, and the day we had to bag them for shipping - I donned welding gloves, leather biker jacket, welders face sheild and hooks.

The person who got them had gotten bit, and did not notice anything out of the ordinary.

I also free handle western terestrial garters "Thamnophis elegans". I've heard stories of kids having a lot of swelling and irritation for days after bites from them. They bite an adult mouse and it becomes paralyzed.

I've tried to get bit by garters in the past, to see what happens.

Dry Fry, I'll keep you updated if I ever get bit. I'd love to see my name, and pers. comm. together in your literature.

Ryan

Vanan · 09-26-03, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Dry Fry, I'll keep you updated if I ever get bit. I'd love to see my name, and pers. comm. together in your literature.

LOL! Does this mean that you'll be pissing the heck out of every garter you see Ryan? I can just picture it. Ryan with a garter in hand poking at its nose, going "Bite! Bite! I wanna be in Dr Fry's papers! Bite goddamnit!" lol!

Mustangrde1 · 09-26-03, 06:21 PM

Not trying to be insulting ,But why would you try to get bit by a potentially Venomous animal just to get your name in a paper.

To me this sounds foolish. Say for instance you had a sever alllergical reaction and required medical attention the bills could be very high. Also there is the possibility of death . then you get in to the bad media publicity. What about the effects it could also have on your family.

I believe there are far better ways to test these animals then on ones self for the purpose of having your name in a paper.

jtpRUGGER · 09-26-03, 06:34 PM

Good question...for my not-so-hots, it depends. H.nasicus, I pick up, play with, take out to dinner, whatever. Never really treated them as a hot. Mangroves, when I work with them, I am more careful, but not as I am with my vipers. Finally, however, is T.jacksoni. I have a pair of them, and I treat them like what they are: Hell on Wheels. Even if I didn't think these guys were hot, I wouldn't treat them much differently. They are fast. I mean really fast. I have seen them bite, kill, and consume an adult mouse in well under a minute. That includes swallowing time. So, I guess my answer to this question is: Depends on which "not so hot."

Vanan · 09-26-03, 07:57 PM

Holy wow! That sounds crazy with the T. jacksoni. Dya find them being aggressive (striking or gaping, whichever they do) or just plain fast?

jtpRUGGER · 09-26-03, 08:38 PM

Vanan, they are just plain wild if you tail them...fast, and WILL strike if given the chance...they also inflate tracheal airsacs like boomers...

Scales Zoo · 09-27-03, 12:56 AM

Mustang...

There is very little known about bites from wandering garters.

I'm not allergic to many things, but if I did die, I would make a Dr. Fry paper for sure, and that would be so cool!

It isn't a paper by just anyone, but by the good Venom Doc! People are just dieing to get in those.....

Ryan

Mustangrde1 · 09-27-03, 08:10 AM

I guess maybe I just put more value on my life than to risk it for a paper. I know the animals I deal with are at best dangerous at worst deadly. To become another statistic just doesn't sit well with me.

It reminds me of old science as an example, I recently had an argument with a person. He stated" I collect sub record animals and put them in with other species and grow them to records then put them in Jars for preservation so that DNA and BLOOD work can be done later and my name will be on papers and the jar". This was in regard to North American turtles but he has said he would do it for snakes or anything.
Now my problem with that is, 1st it was not a record find but a captive grown record. 2nd it was placed with other species which can introduce other parasites and cross contamination.
3rd with the abundance of research already done on North American species there is no call to sincelessly kill an animal just for name recognition of a person.
DNA and Blood samples can now be performed in the field as well as measurements and weight and pictures of the animal. Thus eliminating the need to kill animals of large size which are by all counts the healthiest genetic members. These animals will produce the better genetic and the larger clutch sizes and therefore hopefully insuring the continuation of the species.

What was good Science in the 1800s and early 1900s has evolved in to a better and more exact science in the later 1900s and in to the 2000s? Eliminating much of the unneeded deaths for both animals and humans.

Yes, I agree at one point this was what was known as good science but to continue it now in my opinion is unneeded as there are better methods now available. Also for any person to put themselves at risk to test the affects of a bite is Bad research do to the many complexities in Human DNA and make up what affects one person may not affect another so why risk it.

I would love to hear what the take on what I just said is from all the members of this forum are.

Scales Zoo · 09-27-03, 10:00 AM

Maybe you took my last post a bit too seriously.

I wouldn't want to die, and I don't think there is any real risk of death from a bite from a wandering garter.

Yes, I do want to get bit by one someday, to see if any symptoms I have heard of occur in me.

I was one of those kids who had to find things out for myself, I guess I haven't really grown out of that.

Ryan

Mustangrde1 · 09-27-03, 10:53 AM

Ryan, I do take venomous bites seriously .I have seen first hand what kind of damage they do and the after math both financially and disfiguring that can and often does occur.

Keep this in mind at one time people thought boomslangs couldnt kill! You never know what will happen and i would hate to see someone have to find out first hand, when there is no need to.