Live or dead ? That is the question

[MouseKilla]

This should just be a permanent thread because this topic will never go away. For those who are becoming annoyed I'd like to let them know that it isn't totally useless, people do change their minds because they've participated in or just read one of the hundreds of threads asking this same old question. My personal opinion has evolved on this because of these debates. At one time I fed live exclusively, now I feed f/k or very stunned prey. I have been shown the pictures and heard the horror stories and that has swayed me even though I have only ever had one minor bite to one of my snakes. Just from my own experience I judged that it was worth what I perceived to be a very small risk of minor injury to give the snakes as natural a life as I possibly could (while appreciating that I could never simulate it perfectly). I was not feeding live to get off on watching a rodent die, I kill them myself all the time so it's no thrill to watch a snake do it. What I was trying to do is increase the animal's quality of life. I still think this is something we should try to do but after being shown proof of the risks of live feeding, the things that probably won't but just might happen during one of the thousands of feedings you will have to do, I have decided that the risks aren't worth the potential benefits in this case. To compensate for the snake not taking the prey down itself you can put a stunned rodent into the enclosure, it will still twitch and move around but won't be able to defend itself. If you're snake isn't an ambush hunter by nature, like a BCI, you can hide the p/k or f/t prey in the enclosure and let the snake track it down. I believe those ideas provide some balance between safety and stimulation.

[Gollum]

Ok, Ok agreed... Ill drop it since it really seams to bother certain members

[BoidKeeper]

And what becomes of the snakes hunting instinct ?

Why would they need it in captivity? If they are fed they don't need to hunt so why would they need the instinct?
Mykee: Bang! My turn!
Trevor

[Linds]

Originally posted by BoidKeeper
Why would they need it in captivity? If they are fed they don't need to hunt so why would they need the instinct?

They don't need it in captivity, but these are animals that will not, no matter what you do, lose their feeding instincts. The only instinct that gets tampered with is their fear instinct. Many of them learn to eventually lose fear of potentially harmful animals, such as people.

[BoidKeeper]

My point exactly Linds. Guess I wasn't clear enough or sarcastic enough.lol
Cheers,
Trevor

[TheRedDragon]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Live prey should only be fed to a snake as a LAST RESORT. If the snake won't take F/T (Frozen Thawed), try them on F/K (Fresh Killed). My Kenyan was always fed live all her life by her previous owner and Invictus and I managed to get her on freshly killed prey. It takes a lot of patience, but, it can be done. I only condone live prey IF and ONLY IF you've tried everything else to get the snake on dead prey, all efforts have failed, and the snake is on the brink of starvation. Even a small mouse can do a HORRIFIC amount of damage to snake if it gets the notion to defend itself, could you even BEGIN to imagine what a rat or a guinea pig could do? It's not pretty. Even if the snake has been fed live all its life without incident, I can garentee you that eventually something can and will happen where the owner will regret their decision to feed live. Even if the feedings are supervised, do you really think that if the mouse decided to attack the snake, that you'd be brave enough to seperate the two? It'd be worse then stepping in between a cat fight! Just my 2 cents.

[mykee]

Trevor; Sorry I missed that, but huh?

[BoidKeeper]

Sorry Mykee. This is what I meant.

Around and around we go in a neverending battle of live vs. dead. Shoot me.

Bang! There, I shot you. Now it's my turn *hands mykee the pretend gun*
Cheers,
Trevor

[enso]

*Beats this thread to death with a frozen thawed mouse*

[mykee]

Ahh, too bad you don't have better aim, I was kinda hopin' you'd get me right between the peepers. Ok..... Bang!! ... I missed, quite dancing around!! Bang!! Got ya'.
I feed and will continue to feed RESTRAINED live because I am an inconsiderate, unprofessional, ignorant, uneducated, egomeniacal, insensitive alien cat-eater........uh, sorry got caught up. There, I beat you ALL to it, so leave me alone!! hehehe.... BTW, for all of you who would just love a pound of flesh from me and a great debate on this topic, I refer you to thread: "What should I feed him?" in the 'Python Regius' Forum.

[BoidKeeper]

I've got a new albino het BP that will only take live so far. It's not like I'm not trying to switch him but for now if that's all he's going to take I'm not going to let him starv. Ask any big breeder what they feed. The answer may surprise a lot of you.
Cheers,
Trevor

[mykee]

Trevor, the answers have not surprised me one bit, and the reasoning is right on the money, too. Notice how they never get involved in these petty debates? As a sidenote, for all those who think I am the devil incarnate, I got 6 hatchlings within the lsat couple 'o months, all either het for something, or visible morph, and all were eating live (but for one) when I got them. I'm glad to say that I have converted them ALL to f/t. Yay for me. That may change once they get bigger though..........

[mykee]

Trevor, I wouldn't worry about the baby het, what I do is wait until they shed, that one week without food seems to do something, because that's where I offer a f/t and I've had 100% success so far. Keep fighting the good fight.

[BoidKeeper]

How funny is that??? That was the plan. I'm not worried I've convered W/C and this is a CBB Don P animal we're talking about here. It's all just a matter of time really.
Cheers,
Trevor

[mykee]

Mr. Patterson has some great animals, specifically albino hets. I recently got 1.3 het albinos from him. All of them eat like monsters, and all now eat f/t. Their appetites are among the most voracious I've ever seen. At this rate, they'll be tussling with my albino and pastel next year...