People for the Eating of Tasty Animals

[ohh_kristina]

I am a vegan and I do keep snakes. We do not have canine teeth, we have eye teeth. They are not pointed and sharp like a dog, bear, or lion. I am not trying to argue, but there are many scientific studies done to prove this. I have many books on the subject.
My motto is "live and LET LIVE". I kill mice for my snakes, but they are meant to eat meat. I feed my dog and cats meat, because they are meant to eat meat.
I am also vegan because of the healthy aspect of it. I do not consider myself an animal rights activist. I do not go to demonstrations or preach to people at all. People can do whatever they please. Veganism/vegetarianism is a personal choice, and it's a major lifestyle change..i wouldn't push that on anyone.
This is a touchy subject, and like I said, I do not want to argue. These are just my views.
You have your belief system, and I have mine.

[Pixie]

ohh_kristina: It's really nice to get your point of view in this and said in such a nice way When these issues come up in discussion they too often turn into flaming and it's great that it hasn't happened from either side of the "debate"

Can you explain the healthy aspect of veganism/vegetarianism? i have taken nutrition classes and in my studies have found that most vegetarian diets to be unsufficient. It takes a very disciplined person to follow a vegetarian diet and to do it right, especially long term. In my personal experience, all the vegans and vegetarians I have known (quite a few) were quite sickly and always had a cold, flu, or what not. They also had digestive troubles on a regular basis. These are just a couple of aspects which make me doubt the health aspect of this choice of diet.

Wether are teeth are canines or remnants of them, we did evolve to eat meat. The problem today is that we eat too much of it but that is another issue altogether!

Pixie

[MouseKilla]

I dispute the idea that more land is used to farm animals. A thousand pounds of meat takes up a whole lot less space than a thousand pounds of soy. I would love to see evidence to the contrary. I believe that we have a right to eat and use lower forms of life as a means to survive. For those who believe animals have as much right to live as humans I have to ask if they think that insects share this right and if so what about vegetation or other life forms like viruses? Do they not acknowledge that some forms of life are more important than others or should we wait till the lettuce dies of natural causes and serve it up with some roadkill stolen from scavenger animals, but not before we gently remove every living maggot from the carion so as not to harm any living thing? Say, it's lunch time isn't it?

[Steele]

if we wernt soposed to eat them why are they made of meat?

[BAZ]

I can respect a person's decision to become a vegetarian if it is as a protest to the way animals are kept before slaughter. We had this whole mad cow problem because cows were being fed ground up cows. Apparently chickens are also fed ground up chicken.

This is how I see it:

We eat way too much meat.. more than we need to. Our demand for meat causes animals to be kept in inhumane conditions.

As a muslim my belief is that an animal should be treated well and slaughtered quickly. This means not keeping them in crowded conditions, not slaughtering one animal in front of another, and not feeding a herbivore meat.

I think a better choice for us would be to try and stick to free range eggs, chicken etc. It may be more expensive but it is the better choice I think. We also need to cut back on the amount of meat we eat... North Americans have a much higher rate of heart problems and this I think is caused by our high meat consumption. Its all about balance in the end I think.

[ohh_kristina]

Steele: Dogs and cats are made of meat - does that mean it's okay to eat them, too? What about other humans? They are made of meat! Shouldn't we be eating them, too, then?

Pixie: Here are some articles and web sites that talk about vegan health. I have been a vegan for almost two years now. My skin has cleared up, my bowels never give me problems, and I have lost a significant amount of weight. I am almost never sick, except for the regular sinus infection every summer. Being vegan is more than not eating meat and dairy products. It's about eating healthy. You can't just cut out meat and dairy products and eat junk food and bread and pasta. That's not the way it works.
Anyway, here are the links:

http://www.vegsource.com/
http://www.newveg.av.org/
http://www.thevegetariansite.com/health.htm
http://www.vegfamily.com/
http://www.veganoutreach.org/health/


I have more, if you would like to see them. Here are some books (just a few) that I have read and found very interesting:

Animal Liberation by Peter Singer
Turn off the Fat Genes by Neil Barnard, M.D.
Milk A-Z by Richard Cohen
You Don't Need Meat by Peter Cox

I hope this helps you understand!

[Steele]

so as long as it is not cuddly is it ok?

[ohh_kristina]

Steele: No, I didn't say that. What are you saying exactly? I don't agree that it is necessary for humans to eat any animals at all.

[Pixie]

Thanks a bunch Kristina, I knew there had to be some documentation. I will read through it when I have more time.

I know I'm not an expert so I won't say which diet is best. I just like to be informed.

It's nice to hear of someone being as disciplined as you are because they are pretty rare. You are right that just because you cut out animal products doesn't make you healthy. I guess that the vegetarians I have met thus far aren't doing it right.

I wouldn't be able to do it myself as I love dairy products way too much but I am looking forward to reading up on this.

One little question: Don't you miss jello?!! hehe When I found out that gelatin is an animal product I was quite surprised!

Pixie

[ohh_kristina]

I missed Jello for a while, and then I discovered at type of jello that was animal product free! It starts with a K..I can't remember the name of it right now. I haven't had any in a while. It's pretty good, though. I used to eat it quite a bit. If I remember it, I will come back to this thread and let you know.

[Invictus]

ooh_kristina - I can probably show you just as many studies, written by meat eaters, about how NOT eating meat will kill you 10 years sooner. (And in fact, I have read scientific studies that show that meat eaters do outlive vegans by an average of 10 years.) Your sources are biased. So are mine. There is just as much proof against veganism as there is in favor of it.

I saw on the news one day, they had an interview with the oldest living Albertan. He was a man celebrating his 108th birthday. When they asked him the key to his longevity he said (paraphrasing here of course) "Red meat. I've eaten it every day of my life since I grew teeth, and I'm eating it every day now."

So, pick your sources, and pick whatever information backs up your own personal cause. That's the way I see it.

[LISA127]

Originally posted by BAZ


As a muslim my belief is that an animal should be treated well and slaughtered quickly. This means not keeping them in crowded conditions, not slaughtering one animal in front of another, and not feeding a herbivore meat.

Thank you! More ppl need to think like this! Yes, it is fine to raise animals for meat. But anyone who has no problem with seeing any living thing abused, hurt, and suffering is someone I really can not trust to be a compassionate, caring human being.

[MouseKilla]

Baz,
I am fully in support of having strict standards for how meat is produced and part of that is controlling what they are fed and I agree that doing that means not feeding herbivores meat or steroids or anti-biotics. As I posted above though, in the case of chickens, free-range means that there is little control over what these animals are eating. Chickens will eat worms and their own feces. They do have more room but chickens quite often injure eachother in this situation, they fight instinctively. The enclosures they are normally kept in are small for a variety reasons. The first is economic. More space costs more money not to mention it is more harmfull to the surrounding environment. Other reasons include that it prevents the animals from running off their calorie intake and as I said prevents them from eating undesirable things and harming eachother. On top of that their are laws about how animals can be slaughtered.

[ohh_kristina]

Invictus - Yes, you are right. I have seen these documents. The reason I am vegan, and STAYED vegan, though, was the positive results. I feel better about myself, physically and mentally. My body is telling me that it is happy being vegan. I don't crave meat anymore, and in fact, when I eat it..I get very sick. My bowels do not know how to handle it anymore.
Veganism is not for everyone, like I said before. That doesn't mean that you should attack vegans and try to prove them wrong (I'm NOT saying that you are doing that, I am just speaking in general), and I also disagree with vegans who try to convert meat eaters. If someone asks me my opinion or any questions, I answer with glee, but you will never see me push my views on someone else. I don't believe in that.

[LISA127]

Originally posted by Steele
so as long as it is not cuddly is it ok?

Oh, pleeeaaaase......don't start this again. You, as well as the rest of us, know there is no reason we need to be eating dogs and cats!