interesting debate topic - Page 2

asphyxia · 09-10-03, 04:04 PM

I am totally aganst kittens being used to feed snakes.

They are hard enough to find for muskie.

err, umm ya, you are all talking about dead already right?

nevermind

Splash, splash...
Brian

**Aaron_S** · 09-10-03, 04:08 PM

I agree with invictus here.To do it in private is one thing but to do it in front of students I think is wrong. The fact that it shows the general population "evil" in their eyes.

Mousekilla-You say a more valuable life of an animal. But that's just it. People are putting different values on animals that they see more commonly and cause they are "cute and fuzzy." I also believe the fact that reptiles are one if not the only pet that eats whole prey items without it being processed. It was said there is dog in some dog food but noone really notices it.
Look at feral cats and dogs destroying ecosystems..the government if at all is trying to get rid of them in a humane way while maybe the kane toad in australia is being killed out right cause it isn't as loved as a cat or dog,feral or not. If we kill these feral animals I think we should use their bodies aswell to the best of our ability. If we poison them we can't use the meat but maybe the skin or bones.

drewlowe · 09-10-03, 04:10 PM

So nobody gets offended NOBODY is talking about putting your loving fido in the snakes belly. It's about dogs that are going to be put to sleep because nobody wants them and they are going to be put to sleep anyway. I personally if i had a snake that big yes i would feed it animals that are going to die any way. Parasite free of course and only if it was nutrietionaly ok for my animal in question. will probly post more tomorrow seeing as it is quitting time for me now.

SerpentLust · 09-10-03, 04:12 PM

I like the point MouseKilla brought up about it all goes down to whether you think a cat or dogs life is worth more than say a mealworm, mouse, rat, etc. I personally value all life the same. I've had many pet mice, so it's kind of sad to even feed MICE to my snakes. But all in all, the snake needs to eat. If the cat or dog is going to be euthanised anyways, they don't really have that animals life in high regards anyways, so why not make it useful. Carnivorous animals need to eat, and as the owner of such an animal, I guess it's up to you where to draw the line, whether you think mice and rats are lower beings or less alive is completely up to you. To me, all life is the same but I also respect that the animal needs to eat.

In conclusion...Here kitty kitty kitty

Jenn

reptilesalonica · 09-10-03, 04:15 PM

Because our emotions are so strong and deep with the higher class mammal pets, that doesn't mean that they are not meat when they die. I love dogs and cats and all my life i had dogs except the last 7 years (but i will have one soon-a pincher doberman-i cannot live without dogs).
When my Doberman died, 8 years ago, i felt like i lost a good friend, because, we WERE 2 good friends. I was crying that day and i was feeling awful. If that time i had a big snake i could never feed my dead dog to it, nor give it to another person to do that.
Beyond our emotions we must understand nature's ways. We are children of mother earth and father sun and understanding our mother we are closer to our selves.
I think that we humanize a lot many things in our lives, from living beings (names to snakes), to material possesions (cars etc.)
If those dogs were going to die or they were unwanted by anyone then i cannot see anything wrong in feeding them to a snake. In other countries humans eat dogs.
~Greg~

Darlene · 09-10-03, 04:19 PM

It is true that where we are in the world & how we value life has alot to do with it. The way we are raised is also a factor. I grew up in the country & have worked on many different types of farms. The slaughter of livestock is something that I am more then used to. Funny thing is though while I can walk out to the coop & dispatch of a chicken for supper without batting an eye; I get so squeamish to whack a mouse that I am tracking down a place to get dry ice instead. Go figure !!

Siretsap · 09-10-03, 04:27 PM

In my opinion, all living things are to have equal rights. Just the other day, I picked up a seagul with a broken wing on the side of the road. I called the humane society in my region. Told them I had found a bird with a broken wing and they were willing to come pick it up till I told them it was a seagul. Then the guy told me, oh it's only a seagul, well we won't pick him up......

People don't mind to let animals die when they don't associate with it. But if I would have said I found a night owl, they would have came. Why? Doesn't a seagul deserve as much respect as a night owl?

So in my opinion, if we feed dead rats or mice to our snakes, then I do not see the problem in feeding DEAD pups or kittens.

reptilesalonica · 09-10-03, 04:30 PM

IF the students are not to young, then i don't see why they shouldn't see the killing. First of all the teacher must explain to them the whole situation and the purpose of doing such thing. Must explain that the dog(s) are going to die and that the snake is not a bad creature that loves to kill, but it's just a carnivorous creature that needs to feed. Then, i don't see why the students shouldn't see the killing and they must let to their humanized emotions, continue to imagine theirselves outside of everything that has to do with nature, her ways and the instinct of those animals. It is hard but it is the truth. We shouldn't raise our children so fragile. The real world IS pain among happiness. We ought to show them that part of life but gradually and explaining all their questions.
~Greg~

Bryce Masuk · 09-10-03, 04:47 PM

"In my opinion, all living things are to have equal rights."

Really? Including alge Fruit Bacteria and so on?
Not trying to be a Smart *** Im just wondering where you draw the line.

Since no one is really Looking on from Different views what if we changed thos puppys to Unwanted Children that Have no Chance What then? If you see ALL Life as equal Would you have a problem with that?

**Aaron_S** · 09-10-03, 04:51 PM

I see your point reptilesalonica on the students idea. BUT I still don't agree with it. Some of those students might not be able to see our side of the arguement and like I said before it still isn't good for the general public to see this. No matter what...it just makes more hate towards our hobbies and the animals we love. I don't think even if the teacher told them why it was happening they would act differently. They just do not see what we see.

Drewlowe-I am glad you mentioned that we are talking about UNWANTED,on the brink of death by injection puppies or kittens. Not somebodies household pet. But what if that household pet was put in the pound and nobody wanted it? Then what do we do with that body? Just leave it? I say give it to a zoo and feed the crocodillians or large python or anaconda.

MouseKilla · 09-10-03, 04:58 PM

Serpentlust,

It's true, I asked that question but I asked it thinking that it had an obvious logical conclusion. That being that it's easy to see that some life forms ARE more valuable than others. Maybe it's hard to decide whether a mouse is any different than a mealworm but it should be easier to decide whether a human baby is more valuable than a piglet of the same weight. The idea that all life is equally valuable is simply ridiculous. Would you have to sit and think about whether to kill a threatening bee who's sting could potentially kill an allergic loved one? Hmmm I really like Mom but ya know that bee has a right to exist too... Ridiculous, you'd squash the bee without even thinking about it because Mom is infinitely more important than the bee. Extreme example, sure but I think it's pretty extreme to say that all life is of equal value. Now I don't have a problem with making use of dead meat, hell when I'm dead go ahead and feed me to whatever, it's all the same to the dead, crocs, snakes or worms and maggots once yer dead yer dead. All I'm saying is it is BETTER to use a mouse than a puppy if it comes down to killing the thing for feed because a mouse is a lower life form than the dog is.

LurkerAccount · 09-10-03, 04:59 PM

Quote:

In my opinion, all living things are to have equal rights.

Tell me Siretsap, have you ever had a piece of bacon? How bout some fried chicken? They are some of the "higher" and moreintelagent animials there, however, there are no animals treated with more cruelty and disrespect in the world, billions are tortured and sluaghterd every year.
Yet people don't give them a second thought.
But an already dead dog, or a cat, heaven forbid!!

**Aaron_S** · 09-10-03, 05:07 PM

aaashrimp-I believe Siretsap said feeding a dead puppy or kitten is ok in his or her books.

Mouskilla-You are doing what all others do...putting dogs and kittens lives on a "higher" plain then a rabbit or possibly a rat of the same size.

Now your bee analogy has a flaw in it and that is Mom could easily go inside or try and get away from the bee without killing it.

LurkerAccount · 09-10-03, 05:11 PM

Aaron_S, I am aware that she said feeding a dead puppy or kitten is ok in his or her books.
However, that had absolutly nothing at all to do with what I was saying...

Siretsap · 09-10-03, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bryce Masuk
"In my opinion, all living things are to have equal rights."

Really? Including alge Fruit Bacteria and so on?
Not trying to be a Smart *** Im just wondering where you draw the line.

Since no one is really Looking on from Different views what if we changed thos puppys to Unwanted Children that Have no Chance What then? If you see ALL Life as equal Would you have a problem with that?

Well if the fruit is an endangered species, then yes, would you be able to live without any strawberries or grapes?... Of course you know what I mean, was talking about the animals, there shouln't be a difference betwen a rat and a cat.