Syringe Feeding - Getting Veiled's Mouth Open

[J-Man]

Hi Trace

I'm picking up the ingredients for the bug juice today.

I'm going to continue to syringe feed him for a little while, liek you said.

Yeah he pooped... it's not very normal... it's mushier (don't worry I didn't touch it... I can see it... though I did clean it out) I think it's because all he's been eating is mushed banana.

I'll let you know on the progress. Let me get this straight though.... a few crickets, pedialyte and ensure? if you say so...

Jeremy

[J-Man]

Hey again

Picked up that stuff. I had no mealworms though and I tried smashing up crickets but as you said they don't smash well and so my mix was pretty much ensure + pedialyte + egg yolk with circket peices floating in it. I tried sucking up as much cricket as possible but wasn't very succesfull at all. so I hope it's not bad for him if I don't have the crickets in there! even though I'm sure I got some cricket guts in. From now on I'm using mealworms though. Anyhoo, please let me know if I shouldn't be using what this stuff without crickets or mealworms in it.

As always, your help is very much appreciated!

P.S. I was looking at your pictures, is one of your male veileds missing his casque??? I thought it was a panther or something at first lol

Jeremy

[Trace]

Hey Hey

Anyhoo, please let me know if I shouldn't be using what this stuff without crickets or mealworms in it.

I'm sure you got enough "guts" in there to make it worthwhile! Each time I make the bug juice it's turns out differently anyways. The crickets are essentially protein, and the Ensure Plus has got lots of that in it. Mealworms are definately better, as I find they don't move around as much when you try and squish them. You could also try waxworms and silkworms as they don't have that hard exoskeleton. A bit more expensive, but you loose that creepy "crunch" factor in the preparation! LOL!

I was looking at your pictures, is one of your male veileds missing his casque??? I thought it was a panther or something at first lol

LOL! That's my Bacchanal! He was my first rescued chameleon and by far my absolute favorite guy. He came to me about 4 years ago with terrible burns on his casque, shoulders and spines. After much topical and oral antibiotics (and force feeding) he came around, but eventually he sloughed his casque. So that's his sad story in a nutshell. Despite all of his past traumas, he was the FRIENDLIEST little guy and loved nothing more than to sit on my shoulder all day. I don't know, some of these chameleons just seem to know when you are trying to help them. Unfortunately I lost him a few weeks ago and that was very hard on me. He is sorely missed around here.

Anywho.... GO DUKE!

Trace

[J-Man]

I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Was he sick?

Thankfully I was able to feed Duke a lot today! I have a new method. Since nobody really ever feels like helping me feed him, I hold his dewlap with oen hand and the syringe with the other... since I'm holding him by the dewlap he struggles a little and opens his mouth (sometimes I have to coax [spelling] it open with the syringe but it always works) and so I squirt some in like that... then he sits there with his head in the air, swallowing it.

Well, as always I'll keep you posted.

[Trace]

Morning Jeremy!

Thankfully I was able to feed Duke a lot today! I have a new method. Since nobody really ever feels like helping me feed him

Good!!! :thumbsup: Sounds like you are learning some tricks on how to force feed by yourself. I have the same problem here, most people think I'm crazy for trying to rehab as many as I do, but if I think they have a chance at life, I'm going to do it. Sometimes that means force feeding, giving enemas, etc etc by myself.

I apologise too, I didn't address the poop issue in my post last night. Yes, they will be a bit loose while you are giving the bug juice. As long as it's not diarrhea, you'll be ok.

I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Was he sick?

He died of old age. He didn't live out to his full lifespan of 5 years, but I didn't think he would considering all of the health problems he had at such a young age. The few weeks before he passed on, he slowed down considerably, and was just content to sit in my sunny window watching the world go by. He wasn't in pain, he died in his sleep one night and I was there with him at the end. I do have 40 Veiled eggs that I'm incubating and he is the daddy, so his legacy lives on in some small way.

I do like these updates you give me. Go Duke!

Trace

[icequeen]

I have a chameleon that has not eaten on his own since March.
I started out force feeding him bug juice, then whole crickets and mealies...now I just feed him repta-aide, by fluker farms.

When I was feeding him bug juice, I used pedialyte mixed with pureed chicken baby food, as well as a little calcium, and either crickets or mealies in with it.
(is it okay for chams to have ensure? Isn't it dairy based? I would think that would be hard on their gut...but that's just my assumption...certainly not based on any knowledge of it!)

I went to Zellers (don't know where you live, but it's like a walmart if you're in the U.S) and bought myself a "mini-chopper" it's a small electric food processor. It only cost me 14 dollars!! I have used it SOOOO many times since (just for lizard care). It was well worth the little amount of money it cost me.

If you go that route though, make sure you push down rather hard on the lid, as the liquid will leak out around the top.

To make it easy to suck up into the syringe, I strained the bug juice through cheese cloth folded over on itself one time, so it keeps out the big chunks.

I have not read this entire thread....but I'm glad the days of stinking bug juice are over for us. I'll stick with the repta-aide from now on. And my cham likes it MUCH better than he ever liked bug juice.

Good luck to you and your cham!

Kim

[icequeen]

oh, and by the way, I get my cham to open his mouth by just very very gently applying constant steady pressure with my fingers right at the hinge of his mouth, with the width of my fingers (index and and thumb) mostly on his lips.

There is no pulling or force involved, it just seems to trigger the response of him opening his mouth when I do it.

Maybe Zoe is just used to our routine now, and he knows that my fingers near his mouth means food.

When I was feeding him bug juice, it was a CONSTANT wrestling match. Now with repta-aide, he doesn't fight at all.

[J-Man]

Afternoon Trace and Icequeen

Chameleon enemas eh? Not my choice hobby. No need to apologize for not adressing the poop issue, I had pretty much assumed it was normal.

What about that ensure issue queen raised? Do you think it might be bad for them?

And another question, I'm wondering if I'm over-feeding him... I fed him TONS today. I figured he'd stop taking it if it got to be too much but he never did, I ended up feeding him 10 1/2 ml, the whole friggin! He didn't seem to be regurgatating it at all and he didn't seem to have any trouble swallowing it so I assumed everything was fine.

IceQueen, thanks for the advice, I might give that repta-aide a try... though I don't mind making the bug juice now. Whatever helps him, ya know. Why did your cham stop eating?

Jeremy

[icequeen]

Well he came down with two back to back upper respiratory infections, and became severely dehydrated as well. He was too weak to eat or drink.
He had (almost) been abandoned by his previous owner, and he was not really well cared for when I got him. He was in a 30 gallon aquarium, had a reptisun 2 as his only uv source...and the light was already almost two years old when he came to me.

They only fed him 6 crickets every other day, and would just give a "squirt of water whenever we think about it"

I spent HUNDREDS of dollars on vet care, medications, and upgrading his living conditions.

Anyway...the second URI really took it's toll on him, and he lost his ability to shoot his tongue during that illness. He has since regained the use of his tongue (I've seen him catch houseflies) but he chooses not to use it.

I don't know if he's lazy, or spoiled, or if he likes the taste of the repta-aide or what....but he makes NO effort whatsoever to eat crickets, mealies, or waxworms. (He HATES waxworms...he spits them out as quickly as I can get them in!)

One friend said to me: He's just like any other man...if he can sit around and have a woman serve him...he will....he's not stupid.

[Trace]

Holy Moly am I behind on this thread now! LOL!

Actually I'm glad Kim has jumped in here! I've followed her trials with her chameleon on some other forums that we both belong to, and she has great ideas and tricks as well!

Chameleon enemas eh? Not my choice hobby.

Mine neither! :/ But it had to be done! This little female Veiled came to me constipated and with a broken leg. She is now passing stools on a daily basis and is doing very well. She is still in a cast and has to wear that for another 4 weeks yet. She is a little trooper and one of the most good natured females I've ever met. I should post a pic of her someday.

What about that ensure issue queen raised? Do you think it might be bad for them?

Now I have not had a problem with the bug juice formula in the years I've had to use it. The first ingredient is water so a lot of that is going to absorbed. I like it because of the many vitamins and minerals that it contains. I recently started using that Emeraid Nutri-Support stuff that I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, as it's much easier to mix up. No more bug juice for me either! To take up a contrary position, I don't like the Repti-Aide stuff (no offense Kim!). I guess I'm hesitant about pre-packaged over-the-counter meds and foods for reptiles. I know we have made great strides in the last few years with our knowledge about reptile husbandry but I just don't trust them for some reason. That being said, the bug juice has worked for me and the Repti-Aide is working for Kim... so who is right?

I'm wondering if I'm over-feeding him... I fed him TONS today. I figured he'd stop taking it if it got to be too much but he never did

My attitude towards this is: Let them eat! If they want to eat buckets of Bug Juice a day, then they can go right ahead! I'll sit there! They will stop when they are full!

One friend said to me: He's just like any other man...if he can sit around and have a woman serve him...he will....he's not stupid.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! My chameleons act stoopid most of the time, but, yes, they've got me trained to do anything they want! Little Buggers!

Cheers!

Trace

[J-Man]

Hey Trace!

I'm glad to hear I can feed him as much as he will take.

I don't know if there's anything else to say! I guess I should just keep on feeding him until he gets better. Unless you, queen have any ideas about why my cham's eyes are closed? I know you didn't have time or patience to read this whole thread... but, as I've told trace, he keeps both of his eyes closed almost all of the time. He looks perfectly healthy, he has no crust around his eyes or anything, no swelling... he sometimes has one eye open (which makes me happy when he does). Have you ever experienced this before?

Thanks for all of both of your help! It's been very....helpful (trace, you should appreciate that.. being a monty python fan)

Jeremy

[Trace]

Just to get slightly off-topic! You must be a Monty Python fan too!

It's been very....helpful (trace, you should appreciate that.. being a monty python fan)

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Tim the enchanter scene! I know that movie verbatim! Now I have to go and watch it! LOL!

There are some who call me... 'Trace'?

Back to the regularly scheduled thread...

[J-Man]

verbatim eh? Well isn't it "There are THOSE who call me... 'tim'?" I could very easily be wrong...

[icequeen]

I too am concerned about the long term use of repta-aide.
I mean it really is for rehabilatation, so, I don't know if it is actually healthy for day to day, long term use.
Perhaps it is LOADED with certain things and lacking in others, that over time will cause harm all on it's own.

I just keep offering him bugs, in hopes the he will take interest. He just never does.
I'm going to contact my vet though, and ask about the Emeraid Nutri-Support you mentioned. If nothing else, I'd like to buy a bigger container of meal replacement, than these little 50 grams bags, for 13 dollars a pop.

Trace, I didn't know you read KS...do you post there as well?

I find THIS forum more "homey", since there is a higher number of Canadians that post on here....so much of the info is relevant to me....cost comparisons, supply availibilty etc.

J-man...about your cham keeping his eyes closed....for the most part, the general concesus is that it indicates illness. Dr. Ivan has made a couple posts on his site, talking about how certain tumours will cause a cham to close it's eyes...but usually only one eye, and you most likely would see evidence of a mass, especially on a young cham.

With Zoe, he NEVER would fall asleep during the day...but he would be harder than heck to wake up in the morning, when he was sick. We actually had to reach in and move him to wake him up, otherwise he would not open his eyes.

Now that he's better, and I've moved him into a MUCH bigger cage...I noticed him do something that scared the crap out of me!
When he would get too warm, he would go a little lower in his cage...under a big over hang of a scheflerra branch...it was cooler and considerably darker under there...and the little buggar would go to sleep!!! I think the drop in temps, and the drop in light levels made him think that it was time for bed!
I've since changed the position of the tree, so that it doesn't hang over his resting spot like that, and now he doesn't fall asleep during the day anymore. That was just a couple weeks ago that this took place...and he appears to be as healthy as he had been since recovering from his URI.
I was worried it was an ominous sign, but I think it was just a situational thing.

I don't know what your set up is, but perhaps something similar is happening with your guy.

WHEW! that was a lonnnnnng one.....sorry about that!

[icequeen]

oh, and by the way...

I was thinking about the whole dairy product thing this afternoon.
I remember giving Zoe plain yoghurt with live bacterial cultures to get his gut bacteria back to normal, after a longish run of antibiotics.
That's a dairy product too and it didnt' have any ill effect.

I guess I was just thinking about how they tell parents not to give thier kids dairy products when the are vomiting, or have diarrhea....which is not the situation with your fellow.