Weight Loss in Leo

[Alicewave]

are you supposed to administer 1/3 of a pill each day for three days? If so you might wan't to split even the 3rds up by half so you administer smaller doses twice a day. That way if he has a bad reaction you can tell before you have given him too much medicine. Does that make sense? 35 grams isn't THAT bad. Aurora was 8 grams at 6 months old when I rescued her and she turned around beautifully. I hope that gives you some hope at least. Good luck!

[Samba]

Thanks, Meg. The recommended dosing we'll be doing is 1/3 of the pill every two weeks... does that sound too far apart? It does to me but I suppose the doc knows best.

It's kind of humiliating knowing that I rescue other people's reptiles; now I'm trying to save my own...

Darwin's weight a few months ago was 50+ grams... he's lost almost half od his body weight! I can't believe these tapeworms can turn a young, healthy beautiful gecko into a withering, lifeless thing so soon...

Watching him struggle is the hardest part, but we'll fight this thing all the way. One other thing I noticed today: When I approached his tank it smelled like DEATH. I thought he had died overnight until I got the courage to lift his hide. He's still alive, but where on earth did that stench come from? Maybe my fear of him being dead made me smell phantom scents...

I am going to pick up that pill... I'll let you guys know how it goes...

Thanks Again!

[Grant vg]

samba,

Unfortunately Doctors dont always know best. not even in humans, and especially not in reptiles....

Now the only Droncit pills i know of have a concentration of 250mg of the active ingredient which is Praziquantel and one pill can worm a 14lb reptile!!!!
Sooooo...... i would think that a 1/3 of that pill every two weeks would OD your 35 g animal VERY quickly.
The dosage for reptiles of praziquantel is 20-30mg PER kg administered orally once BUT i always do it twice on my snakes.
20-30 mg/kg, in theory, is dosageing at 100% to kill all Cestodes (tapeworms) in one shot. The second dosage AFTER 2 weeks is usually just a backup treatment to kill any ones that may have survived.
and the two weeks is usually when the reptile is safe to take another dosage.

Now assuming that you are recieving the same amount of praziquantel in the pills i have. 1/3 of that pill, sounds like a little much for a 35gram leo for each dosage.
35 gram leo = 0.035 kg leo.
dosage is 20-30mg/kg
in my droncit pills 1/3 is like 80mg, which means, 1/3 can worm a 3-4 kg reptile (thats like 8 lbs!!!!!!!) . hardly a 0.035kg leopard gecko with declining health.

Droncit is said to be able to overdose at 5 times the reccomended dosage before signs of any ill-effect.
But one must take into consideration the health of the animal.
My minds a wreck right now, but i would think, if you have a 0.035 kg animal, then by multiplying 0.035 x 20 and 30 mgs that would give you the proper dosage.
.7 - 1 mg/0.035 kgs of weight. Hardly what i would cal 1/3 of any pill. that would mean i would have to divide my pills up into 250 parts to safely worm that leo.

anyways, perhaps your vet has a plll of lower concentration. you should definately find that out before administering anything. And also find out what your vets reccomended dosage is in numbers rather then fractions of a pill . just to be on the sae side.

Goodluck!
Let me know how it goes.

Grant vg

[Grant vg]

Also, fenbendazole (panacur) is for hepatic, round, lung , and hook worms.
Ive never read or heard of any vet book reccomending panacur for Tapeworms.
This boggles my mind why your vet would originally reccomend and administer it to your leopard gecko , especially since they are such small and sensitive reptiles.
Id scrap the whole vets advice personally. although i as well as most ppl on this site are not vets. Sounds like most of us have had more experience treating reptiles then your vet. A simple search on the net would come up with numerous pages with the proper dosage and treatment for your leos worms.

Sorry , just another rant about bad vets...

Gvg

[Grant vg]

also ,

Any type of worming will usually thoroughly flush out your lizards system, most likely the cause for your leos weight loss...

Has it been defecating alot? perhaps that is the reason for the "death" smell you are smelling?

gvg

[Samba]

Thanks, Grant. Since I am unable to contact you at this point, I will hold off on dosing Darwin. Now I am so confused it's crazy. I will be contacting my vet to find out the concentration of the pill he gave me. I definately don't want to overdose Darwin, not only is he a precious pet and valued breeder, he was also a b-day gift from my boyfriend last year.

Yes, as a matter of fact, Darwin does deficate a lot. (Probably because I won't relent in pumping him full of food). I clean he tank almost daily now. His stools are runny, as mentioned before (due to the 'liquid diet').

If anyone can help me with my Darwin please feel free to e-mail at: SambasReptileRescue@Hotmail.Com or leave a message, I am checking this site every 45 minutes or so.

Thanks again!

[Alicewave]

Wow, I'm glad someone who has some semblance of what to do about this finally jumped in. Thanks grant! Samba I want to wish you the best of luck again finding the right dosage and treating Darwin. My thoughts are with him.

[Samba]

Thanks, Meg. Well, I am going to let Darwin be for the night. I fed him twice today (he regurg. the first time), it appears that he has kept he second feeding down. I swear he gets smaller everyday.

Grant... if you could reply please before tomorrow morning I would appreciate it. My e-mail is above incase I'm not on this site anymore.

Thanks for all your help and advice, both of you.
I will post again tomorrow...

[drewlowe]

Samba that parazap should be in saturday or sunday. I'll let you know how that goes.

[Grant vg]

Samba emailed me, and i thought that it would be a good idea to discuss this whole issue on the forums...to get as much feedback as possible as i am not the most knowledgable on LEOs and it would be beneficial for all to have input and learn.

sambas question was...

"Can you explain to me how you use Droncit? My vet gave me a little vial with the crushed pill in some olive oil. There is very little liquid in the vial, so I am assuming the concentrations are higher..."

I use droncit in a pill.....depending on the weight of the animal , the dosage is usally standard for all reptiles. 20-30 mg's/kg.

Now i am not the most educated on ways to worm a lizard, especially of that size, (i usally stick the pill in a f/t rats a$$ ..lol)
And if anyone has any ideas on how, i would like to hear them.

my guess would be to dissolve the droncit amount in water and tube feed it. however, thats only my guess on how one would do it. and am unaware if there are better ways to do it.

Now if i was given a crushed pill in olive oil and was told to administer it to my animal, i would be questioning a few things.
first, why olive oil???
Not only is it a horrible solvent to dissolve the crushed droncit which can lead to inproper dosaging, but it will wash your leos system out even more then the panacur from before. ( i know cause my dog drank a 1/2 bottle of mineral oil last week!, what a mess!!!)
I would think that the olive oil will quickly dehydrate your leo even more then the wormer itself. (note: wormers really dehydrate your animal, so make sure theres lots of water around)

on top of all this, they never even gave you the amount of wormer they are suggesting you administer to your leo. 1/3 of a pill doesn't cut it when it comes to my animals.
i need to know proper dosages and weights and specific techniques and possible reactions or concerns before i administer ANYTHING!

I feel like time is an issue and your leos health is declining and i wish i could give you an answer that could solve all your problems right away but there sounds like such a lack of adequate communication from your vet, so all i can say is call your vet, ask what dosage (in numbers) she is recomending to you, did she weigh the dosage? if so what was it? (you would have to have quite a good scale to be weighing in the 1 mg vicinity. whats the concentration, why did she put it in olive oil? etc.. ask her everyhting and anything, as you have that right causethats what you have paid for. Dont just take her/his word for it. Let them know you want answers that can be backed up.
I would also try contacting someone who has used droncit on lizards before and get some feedback.

gvg

i will be browsing through a medical book i have and try to find some material on this subject. i will get back to you samba if i find something helpful.

[Samba]

Thanks, again! I am going to dose Darwin, if I wait any longer he might not survive. I will give him .20 Cc and see how he reacts. I hope it's not too late...

All this has made me wonder... would Darwin have been better off if he never saw the vet?

I am very distraught right now, so I can barely see the comp. well enough to type. I will update you guys.

Thanks for your help and support...

[drewlowe]

samba i just recieved parazap in the mail today. I'm getting ready to give loki her first dose of it. I will let you know how everything goes. I pray this works for loki cause she is basicly nothing right now.

Last night i tried to feed her some mealies and she aggressivly attacked them. So she is willing to eat. But they went through her system completely undigested.

I pray this parazap stuff works cause no meds the vet has given her has. I will update you on how it works.

[drewlowe]

Samba I gave loki some of that parazap yesturday around 5:00. 3 hours later she actually pooped a solid one. she hasn't done this in at least 4 months. She also already seems to be a little more active. she gets her second dose today. Hopefully i have the same results. Also i'm going to get her some mealies cause she has intrest in nothing else so far. Also when she would eat her meals would go undigested. But yesturday i feed her 3 mealies before giving her parazap. it actually was digested almost fully. if you want tocheck in to parazap here is a link. www.parazap.com

[Samba]

Thanks, Drew. Unfortunately that Parazap may have come too late for Darwin. I hope it really helps out Loki! At least your gecko is eating and interested in food! Keep me updated on his/her recovery!

I checked in on Darwin this morning after dosing and feeding him yesturday. His cage was a mess, looks like he vomited everywhere. I was able to identify very small stool excretions, but it appears that next to nothing made it through him.

He is skinny and weak; my eyes well whenever I see him. He squirms and squeaks when I attempt to feed him, almost making me think that I'm making this worse for him, instead of trying to do better. Then I see him open his eyes, and gingerly lick his lips after tasting a bit of baby food and I have a little hope. Some lizards have been much worse off than he is and made it... but right now I am not keeping my hopes up.

I can only pray that he makes it through the 4-6 week treatments. If I could only get rid of the worms he might have a chance. All I can do now is support him the best way I can: assist feedings, cage cleanings and administering of meds.

I am so depressed. =(

[Tim and Julie B]

Aw Samba. You're doing so much for him. I bet he knows it too. I have an albino female who just decided one day that she wasn't going to eat anymore. No parasites, just won't eat. I try and try, but nothing. She likes mealies but poops them out almost whole and smelly. She's got no fat reserves anymore, but she isn't too thin right now, just her tail really. I was so happy when she ate two kingworms yesterday, and kept them down, no poops yet so hopefully solid when she does. I did notice that she regurged the cricket she ate though. It's so sad to see them suffer, but doing all we can sometimes makes all the difference. I hope Darwin pulls through, even if things take a while. I just hope that my poor little Annie does too. Take care, and good luck.