DEBATE: Housing of Ball Pythons

[DavidBeard]

I'm gonna have to go with Jeff here. I don't really know ya, Jeff, but you and I seem to think alike, which I like. Like you said, some snakes need more space, others don't, for many reasons. Ball pythons are not a large space-needing species. If you want a snake that needs lots of space, then get a burm or another large snake. Why must we anthropomorphize snakes so often? They don't need or want room to "play" nor do they need "friends." It is a snake, not a person.

[tHeGiNo]

I do not think I was anthropomorphizing ball pythons at all. I never said they needed play time nor space, but maybe extra space would = more activity = more excercise. Also,

If you want a snake that needs lots of space, then get a burm or another large snake.

That makes no sense. When people get big snakes, they usually supply half their length or a little more. Here, we are talking about giving them more space then half their size for example, or more then what is generally given. If we were speaking of a large snake, we would also be talking about providing a 15 foot tank for a 10 foot snake. I never said I wanted a snake that needs lots of space, the only reason burms need bigger houses then balls are obviously because they are bigger.

However, jeff, you have made some really good points. The bets would have to be

That couldn’t be further from the truth. Snakes should be kept in large cages if they use the space. Some snakes do. A lot don’t.

That put things into perspective to me.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Its a very very good post you started TG. Intelligent questions demand intelligent responses. I just wish I had more info for you to digest. I don't want to just post my opinions though. I'm trying to find hard evidence for you, as I think you've been given enough "opinions" on your quest for answers.

We will discuss Ball Pythons further, I'm sure of it.

Check out the Sutherlands Ball Python video.

[tHeGiNo]

Where can I see that?

[Jeff_Favelle]

Not in theaters. You'll have to buy it. Go here:

http://www.ballpython.com/bpbreeding.shtml

[marisa]

But wouldn't a person have to ask himself/herself *WHY* their ball python in a 60 gallon tank is moving more? The snake obviously has further to go and *has* to move more to reach the desired temp, as in a 60 gallon the warm side would be far over to the right (well whatever side you choose) but the cooler temps will be far over the the left. The BP has to be more active.

I would generally feel this is right for my cornsnakes because they are an active snake, never stop moving, like to explore. But from everything I have personally read or seen on video, or nature programs or heard from other people, is that ball pythons aren't a "travelling" snake and don't cover all this ground at night like say a corn would. They are slow moving, calm, underground snakes. From what I know they don't *want* more activity naturally, they like less.

So thats why I personally feel the smaller cage the better, *especially* when advising someone new to Ball Pythons and about to get their first.

I would have been seriously disapointed had a gotten my BP and a person on here told me "Sure I keep mine in an 80 gallon!" I would have not only been dissapointed but dumb for listening to this advice without knowing the animals natural behaviours. Which I learned, hence the reason I go with a smaller cage for my BP

Good day!

Marisa
P,S, I am NO expert, I have one BP and I have had it less than a year. These are my personal deductions from my own research before obtaining this animal. (And during of course)

[Jeff_Favelle]

Exactly Marisa. Ball Pythons are NOT travelling snakes. If you see them cruising, then something is usually not right (doesn't have to be majorly wrong, but enough to trigger clues and mechanisms within the snake to cause it to motor).

We shouldn't confuse a BP trying to escape for a BP that wants more room and is trying to exercise, LOL! It means they aren't getting the stuff they want/need to be a Ball Python in the current surroundings.

[tHeGiNo]

Very very true! However I hope your not referring to me because I never said anything like that, heh.

[Jeff_Favelle]

No no my man. Just a general statement.

[marisa]

Yup. Just a general throw into the discussion. I like having "debates" and often some off strongly. But I do believe in everything my statement said.

For the same reason I stated above, it does bother me when I see corns being kept in Ball Python "o.k." size cages...i.e. small tubs/20 gallon tanks. I don't feel the nature of the corn is served by this at all. They *are* a travelling, climbing, digging, roaming snake. Yet people give them the same amount of room that they would give to a slow, non-travelling snake species.

And many people on the other forums I have visited have fat deposit problems, egg binding problems and fat unhealthy looking cornsnakes. Its because they force them to act like a Ball Python.

Its bothered me so much I am building a new rack right now because I never ever feel right looking at my rubbermaids for the corns. And they are even larger than most use!

Marisa

[Jeff_Favelle]

Exactly Marisa.

But isn't that just common sense (of which there seems to be a lack of in the world)? I mean, it should be obvious that different species need different things! If that wasn't the case, then I'd be breeding Timors and Boelens and Komodo Dragons. Obviously they need different requirements.

Too bad more people don't think like you do.

[marisa]

I didn't even think of it that way myself until I was thinking about a huge custom made plexi and wood enclosure I have (like 6 feet long, 4 wide). I was wondering if someone was going to put a snake in there, what would be best small species? (not that a cage size like that would work, I was just pondering)

The more I thought about it, I realized my BP would ignore over half the room, and would be forced be to come into the open to cross the long heat gradient to reach choice temps. But the more I thought about it that way, I realized that my cornsnakes would use every single inch of that space, each night.

Hence the reason I am planning on moving the colubrids to larger more open enclosures this summer.

Marisa

[tHeGiNo]

Very good point. I also notice we too often give the minimum requirements husbandry wise.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Yep Gino. And you know what?

The minimum requirements often yield the minimum results. Whereas a tiny bit more effort yields great rewards. Often, not all the time mind you...

[tHeGiNo]

Yes, of course as with anything, there are some exceptions.