tell me you security tips...

[mk-ultra]

i have to agree with steeve on the glove i use glove to handle aggressive snakes but i use them to protect them and me at the same time my snakes never bite when i have gloves on ( glove that dont conduct heat ) but if i show my hands to them gee im in for some piercing ... so i think that its more precautious since when the animals see your hot skin he goes for it with the glove you drop the chance of a snake bite a lot since the snake sees less heat coming from you arms or hands thats my opinion

[Scales Zoo]

SCALES Zoo keeps a rock python that cannot be handled. We have become very clever in capture and restraint of this particular serpent. We use a box with a hole cut in the side no larger than the girth of the snake, so she has to go completely into the box in order to come out, unless she backs out. She happens to like the confines of the catch box, her record length of stay in the box is 22 days, during which time she dragged 2 dead rabbits into the box with her. We had tried to lure her out after a week so we could remove the box, and we found drag marks across the floor into the box. When we clean the cage, we box her, and remove the box to a secure container, then replace the box and turn out the lights so she will come out.
We have a retic, however that is not falling for the box trick.

Tongs and hooks are always used when dealing with the snakes, and gloves are handy with the monitors, as the claws can do a nasty number on the flesh.

[Beejay]

Originally posted by Steeve B
What kind of reply is this, why don’t you ask or say something pertinent like, why who’d you use these Steeve, what’s the benefits, dos it really help?
We routinely handle 20 adult sebas and suluwaisi retics, none of them bites, don’t you think we may know something .

LOL I don't know what happened to the rest of my reply.

Oh well.

I forget what I had intended to ask. Thanks for judging my reply so fast though!

Bj

[ReptiZone]

first off I will do my best to tell you what to do to handel it but it's realy a mater of trial and error and you need to see a person do it to realy understand cause when you are watching you can see what that person dose when a caputre go sour. first of dealing with a nasty sebea in its cage is crazy. first thing first make shour you have clean flore space then you take your hook and slowly work the tail end towards you then grasp it and gently pull leave the hook realy close to the undre belly and right when you think it is right (normaly 1/2 a foot from the head) or what ever you are comfertable with then use the hook like you would use your hand to cup under his belly and lift the snake up and out of the cage now if it becomes to wild and cant be controled then you place it on the flore alwas hold the tail and when I say tail I mean right b4 the cloaca. then you can pin the head you should alwas have a partener in the room with you that way if you pin the snake your partner can grabthe hook and you can pick it up or vic versa the rest of the procedure is just comen sence you will know what to do from here.

[V.hb]

Id like to add a few things too this thread. As myself and my girlfriend both keep and have dealt with many giant pythons as well as large monitor lizards I cannot personally see WHY you wouldn't wear gloves. First off we both wear gloves for anything that can potentially hurt either one of us, espeacially monitors! Not wearing gloves is irresponsible. Espeacially if you are putting your animals into the hands of others. IE you run a store.

The issue of removing teeth is incredibly stupid. If you are bitten by any animal that uses a large amount of force they will lose teeth even if you aren't wearing gloves. It is all in your over-all reaction to when you are bitten, experts like Steve and others who wear gloves are prepared to be bitten, they do not trust the animal 100% as anyone shouldn't. It is just SMART.

Obviously anyone in Steves position (or in any zoo) is going to have multiple pairs of gloves. They do not harbor bacteria if you are using one pair per animal as opose to one pair per 100 animals. Iam also sure anyone purchasing livestock as expensive as steeve does they are going to keep the equipment clean and free of threatening bacteria.

On top of everything, if you own a store, you need to cover yourself. Insurance would nail you hardcore if you didn't wear gloves. Personal keepers can gleem in their own scars and think it's cool to be bitten, but people running stores must protect their employees. Being sued isnt very fun.

Steeves thread was completely justified, he is asking to better everyones situation, he didnt make this thread to bring anyones practices down. We agree 100% with Steeve


This thread is a very good topic, and all steeve is doing is trying to educate people upon his own experiences. he wasnt doing this to have his ideas attacked. Everyone has their own methods, lets compare them peacefully without the close minded conclusions.

Sorry had to add something, Don't take any offence to my post, iam not meaning to bash anybody, from the way ive read it everyone jumped to conclusions without asking questions to get more of the story.

[ReptiZone]

first off I will do my best to tell you what to do to handel it but it's realy a mater of trial and error and you need to see a person do it to realy understand cause when you are watching you can see what that person dose when a caputre go sour.

v.hb I dont know if you read the 2nd page put it is well stated that I would do my BEST to tell.

first of dealing with a nasty sebea in its cage is crazy

I said right there that is was not an easy snake to work with.

then you take your hook and slowly work the tail end towards you then grasp it and gently pull leave the hook realy close to the undre belly and right when you think it is right (normaly 1/2 a foot from the head) or what ever you are comfertable with then use the hook like you would use your hand to cup under his belly and lift the snake up and out of the cage now if it becomes to wild and cant be controled then you place it on the flore alwas hold the tail and when I say tail I mean right b4 the cloaca. then you can pin the head you should alwas have a partener in the room with you that way if you pin the snake your partner can grabthe hook and you can pick it up or vic versa.

plz tell me how telling some one to do things gently and to have a partner in the room with him or her is living on the wild side.

As for the teeth thing do some reserch and you will find out 1 of the causes of mouth rot is riping teeth out by accident and then bacteria sets in, man you could have CLEAN hand if a snake bites you on your flesh there is a risk for mouth rot the key is to keep the head away away from things it could bit ex.. hands, legs, face so on and so on

it would by cool if you took the time to learn how to use a python hook that way you could show the rest of the staff how

I was not atacking his methods I was stating a fact. I find it more profecinal if I walk into a shop and ppl are using hooks for there animals.

I dont think a person would slap on a pair of working gloves for a viper of any sort all thow you will find ppl that do do that it dose not mean it is the right way to do things. If ppl can handel hots with hooks then we can handel any snake with hooks that is why they come in all shapes and sizes from neonate hooks to 3'' wide python hooks
any way I said my piece do what you want with it

[Steeve B]

Beejay I dint judge you my friend but only your reply as I feel you have more to give.

The best advising I got so far is the hide box trick, witch I do use quit often or use to, there’s a draw back to this method, the problem reside in the snake not being conditioned to handling, then when you really need to handle to separate female from clutch or en eye cap or any other mandatory chores, it becomes dangerous.
This is why we handle them often and freely, they don’t seem to adjust to any kind of restraining and pining any animal 14+ feet is next to impossible at least without hurting them, anyone with experience knows these snakes are not easy to manipulate, this is why I asked this forum for advising, and I appreciate every reply good or bad as I feel theirs always something to learn from everyone. Kind regards

Ps. we use glove to clean cages and handle, obviously we wash them often

[Steeve B]

Ok guys now you can have a good laugh on me, this guy has never handled any snakes before he came working with me, many peoples came to me with lots of experience on there hands, when asked if they who’d work with glove and obey to a strict protocol they all said Steeve trust me I don’t need all these precaution.
Even my rodent guy must where glove at all time, not only to protect him but the rodents also, what about blood contamination; this is why protocol is needed.
We all know these cb and raised burms really don’t need all these protective measure, but when like this fellow you handle 100s of reptiles daily you will get an occasional berm bite or monitor clawing, buy obeying to these you rule out most of the possible accidents, making work with these animals much more enjoyable.
This guy for the last 2 years never even experienced a scratch, if I who’d go snake hunting in the jungle of PNG this guy I who’d trust with any snake, he has more snake, monitors, crocodiles handling experience in 2 years then most keepers in a life time, yet here you see him gloves and sleeves.

[nhherp]

Been reading the post and decided to chime in.
My best safety tips are the following.

1--A CAGE divider. Not a trap box, but a divider that allows you to cut off an entire half of a cage. I utilize this on my big Sulawesi, the female being 20+ , the male being approx 15-16. They are true WC specimens that I have been working with for 5 years, they females cage is 14 ft long so it can accomadate the male during breeding(not yet successful). I gave up on trying to handle them at 14ft. Just to much headache and hassle, trying dealing with 2 large and grumpy snakes at the same time in the same cage!. No need to stress the snake/s or myself to clean a cage, if she would take on a breeding I really wouldn't worry about her being conditioned to human touch. it never existed, and I tried. Also I am the only one to work with these guys hands on, I have friends who are around during such if I need them, but the sulawesis I could not make some one elses duty even if I had that option. Somethings just work that way. Do not allow others to work with something that is a potential lawsuit factor, you know the risk minimalize it to the upmost if you need to.

2--Hot water access. In case you get a bite that does not let go. It has never failed me, and has worked not only on snakes but crocodilians and monitors as well. Dump hot water(not scalding, your not trying to hurt the snake or yourself) on the mouth. Simple hot water from the tap like you would wash your hands good with usually works.

As far as gloves go. I dont use them or care for them. To much is sacrificied in handling ability using welding gloves. yeah they are nice on the little guys, but once it gets size you soon lose the ability of good control. The leather is to slick on the scales to have control of a large snake, not to mention my big ones would pierce them with a bite, and could slash them open is they choose to. My feeling is to control them and where the head is long before worrying about what a bite will do is much safer aspect of husbandry. .
I have a friend who is a professional mover, so he cannot have scabs to tear open and bleed on customers belongings should he get bitten. He keeps retics, and only uses gloves for the intial entrance and pickup of the snake, then he shakes them off in order to maintain control of the snake while moving to where ever. He again ,as with myself ,feels it to be safer to be able to have control of the animal and its head direction, then sacrifice manipulation ability for bite safety, and his full time job depends on it.
If gloves make you feel safer, then use them. It really doesnt matter, so long as your animals are well cared for then its not hurting anyone. Some may argue the snake, which I can see, but I have also had teeth left in my body from bites. I guess one may suggest that some welding gloves have a flame retardent powder between the layers and this may be bad for the animal, but i dont know for sure, I just seem to remember hearing it at one time, and it kinda makes sense.
I just posted my thoughts as a different perspective you may choose to consider or not.
Notah

[ReptiZone]

verry well said I realy like the divider Idea fore the life of me I cant belive it never crosed my mind and I see a bunch of them on the netand I supose if you use the gloves in that maner that if I had my own store I would let it slide if I saw my employes using them any way thanks for posting I know I learnd a bunch of stuff from this thread and a lot of difrent point of views.

[Scales Zoo]

We have thought about dividers for some of the cages - but the way the cages are currently set up, does not allow for easy divider addtions.

The next best thing is the box, for the snakes that would use a box.

We have had a 22' sulawesi that had been wild caught many years ago. We would have loved a divider - as he did not like a box.

We tried a few clever things - but he was very smart, and would learn each trick. We had a few instances where we were forced to handle the snake - and even with 3 very strong people - the snake was pretty much in control.

I also really like the python hook for helping out with the small chores. I used to use it to move the Afrock, but after it got over 8' long - I knew that it would be just a matter of time until something accidental happened with using the hook.

I would love to get a pair of those big gloves. If not for the big snakes, it would make dealing with the large monitors and caimens a lot more convenient.

Ryan

[Steeve B]

When I posted this tread I was hoping for new idea, don’t get me wrong I appreciate all my exchange on this forum but pleas don’t be offended by me, I believe the best that anyone has offer only comes when you say what you think, and aim no exception to this, this is what I think.

1 the hot water is very stressful on any animal, as it’s perceived as there ultimate natural enemy FIRE, I agree it’s efficient and admit to have used it on many occasions.
2 the hide box and the divider both of these are routinely used with excellent success, unfortunately both yields the exact same results, a snake not conditioned to handling witch translate into a very dangerous snake.
3 it was said on this tread gloves may be contaminated in a number of different ways, from bites, faeces, fire retardant, also they are slippery when manipulating some slick snakes.

Aim not saying any of what have been suggested isn’t good, aim only offering alternative and different approach to handling, only you can judge if it may improve your ways.

1 we handle hatchlings with hook until they are 6 feet, then we only handle them with glove, theirs always a few snakes that are nippy, as in nature snakes learn not to strike at many preys because of bad taste, so we use this to our advantage, we press grape fruit peels all over our gloves rarely do a snake bite twice on these gloves, we also produce spray bottle pocket size of the above, these are part of the material we always have on hand shod we need to brake a snake fight or monitor, we never hade to use it in case of accidental bite but no dough it will work.
2 we think its much safer to work with adult snake that routinely get handled, at first my idea was to manipulate the less possible obviously thinking this was the safest way to go, but now the large snake we never handled for safety are also the most dangerous we have, they are now outgrown buy new babies kept on the handling schedule easy to handle and quit safer for everyone here.
3 the glove we use are single layer material none toxic, we wash them often in washer, then we occasionally apply silicon spray in the palm for better grip, but as I said Seba and Suluweisi don’t adjust well to being restrained, its much easier to let them glide thru your hands.

It was also stated to never let others handle potentially dangerous animals, I agree to this totally, not only is it dangerous but irresponsible as well, however I operate a snakes farm, not a pet shop or a zoo, my employees are trained and paid to work with dangerous animals, as in any career risk must be minimal and safety optimised.
I particularly enjoy this forum, especially the peoples in it, hopefully you will not perceive me as being arrogant and stubborn, aim not narrow minded a bit, on this forum I seek improvement not just a deferent way to an already existing method, this why I really enjoy when peoples give there idea, the more the merrier.
Kind regards

[reptilesalonica]

In my oppinion gloves are safe for people that are close to herps but in the other hand, knowing you or anyone that he/she are safe maybe won't pay attention on how they move their hands in front of snake's mouth. The result is that occasionaly a snake may bite that fast moving hand and that will scare off in the first place, customers that don't know much about snakes and they see someone with gloves "trying to tame the beast". These people will never again be in a room where a snake is. I think that gloves are necessary for large lizards. For snakes bigger than 2,5 meters must handled with more than one person. The key is to teach others how they must handle the snakes pointing to your customers how they must handle the snakes. We must try teach people and not scare them. Ending, i think handling snakes with gloves is a negative image for the people that don't know about herps whom may be future hobbyists.
~Greg~

[nhherp]

Good points with the covering of head, however they will strike and bite if they encounter something in the process, with a bag over the head. Especially those with heat sensing pits, seem more prone to do this. I have seen both retics and scrubs do this before, though I will admit it is not the norm, and you are for the most part correct.

[ReptiZone]

So ya come a cross a sabae that dosen't feel in top condition physicly, hungry, strested out from a trip of some sort.

Any of these can lead to a difficult disposition. The only thing I can say is if it is safe to do so leave it alone and go and approch it later after it calmes down a bit. If you can not leave it the room to rest.

You AND your PARTENER (who should be with in arms reach at all times) will need to stand your ground and be ready to do your job as herpers.

This is a situation that should be avoided at all cost but a herper that choses to keep large reptile(snakes) should be ready for and if posible train for it every once and a while.

First off they sell equipment to regain control of a situation like this:

---there are snake hooks made for larg pythons (retic's, burm's rock's and scrubs).
---there is also realy long forceps( large tongs).
---and there is a trash can made by Rubermaid that can be locked at the top (a larg snake bag will work to if you are more comfertable with that).
--- A broom handel is a handy thing to have kicking around your snake room.

Now dont jump in a try to be hero your partner must know what you are planing at all times and if they seem to not be gifted with telapetick powers thats ok! A constant link of comunication must be open.

So now your best tool and #1 life line is that snake hook. If there is a snake that needs two ppl to control it there should be 2 hooks in your snake room at ALL times. You can regain control of your animal while keeping a safe distance with these tools.

Once you are ready to start you need to open the trash can and put it on it's side (or lay out your snake bag on the floor) now if you have the proper equipment you can easaly center the snakes head with you and your parteners HOOKS and from there guide the snake into the trash can once you can do that you can close and lock it. Now NEVER EVER put the can standing up it can kill your snake if you keep it like that too long it will crush it self with it's own wight .

Now just lift the can and place it on it's side in the cage and remove the cover, if needed use the cover as a shield to protect your face let the snake come out on its own and remove the can when it dose caus it has just sufferd a realy high stress level and may need to hide in a closed in area.

(this is if you choose to use the bag)

Place the bag on the floor and take a hook in one hand and a set of tongs in the other now you and your partner need to have thos pieces of equitment.

Guide the snake in the center of you with the hooks and both of you WITH the tongs grab hold of a side of the bag and gently pull it over the snakes head. Take your broom handel or just the back end of the hook and lay it gently in the back of the neck to pin the snakes head in place. Make shour your patner is ready to take control of the body or else you will have a fight on your hands that you can not win on your own. Once that is done keep the bag over the head transport tha snake to it's cage place the whole body in and then guide the baged head into the cage and remove the bag with a pair of thong and there you go your sanke is home.

I just copied and pasted a post I hade made in another thread put I figured you might like to try these method.