Snake shipping question

[toddnbecka]

I'll be shipping out a pair of yearling Dominicans next week, and just finished reading the requirements for packaging, insurance, etc. through FedEx Ship Your Reptiles. You have to use one of their boxes in order for the insurance claim to be honored, and even then it only applies to the delivery time.
I also noticed that they require four holes (pencil works) to be punched through the box, presumably for ventilation.
I'm not seeing any holes in that box?

[whistlepig]

Hm. You guys make some good points, enough that I'll try and pursue this a little more. I still don't hold out much hope of getting any money back (I've filed a FedEx claim, but I'm pretty sure the snake was shipped normally and not with this reptile specific shipping you guys mention), at least I can let other potential customers know that they will get nothing if their snake shows up DOA. Thanks again.

[Aaron_S]

Ok so this does happen in shipping. I've received snakes dead in shipping before.

1. Was there a heat pack in the box?
2. Where are you shipping from and where was it shipping from? What temps is it where you are?
3. Usually what happens is a credit is applied for the cost of the animal. So the breeder should replace it but you'd either have to agree to split shipping or you'd cover shipping again. Reason being is the cost of shipping went to the shipper and not the breeder so it's not like they made any money off that.
4. The packing looks okay-ish. Was there newspaper packing around the delicup in the box?

[whistlepig]

In answer to the questions posed:

1. There was no heat pack in the box.
2. Shipping from California to Illinois. It arrived ~ 11:50 am and temps were probably in the upper 70's or low 80's at the time.
3. The breeder did say he would have replaced it, but mine was the last one he had (which I knew before this happened) and so no replacement. If he had another to replace, he said I would have to pay for shipping as you stated. However, I probably would have just let it go at that point, because I feel like I would have to be crazy to pay for shipping again (which was more than the cost of the snake) given my only experience with this breeder was receiving a dead animal. If I can recover the costs from FedEx for the first shipping my attitude on this may change, but don't know that for sure.
4. There was no newspaper packing around the delicup, but there was a Styrofoam lid.

If nothing else, I think I'm done trying to buy a second snake this way. If I ever do get another, it will be in person where I can take it home immediately.

[EL Ziggy]

Sorry you had a bad experience WP but don't let it totally discourage you from buying online. DOAs are a pretty rare occurrence but it does happen. I've had 9 snakes shipped to me all of which arrived safe and sound. I've never found the snakes I wanted in a pet store or at an expo so I've had to reach out to breeders around the country. Best wishes with your next critter.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by whistlepig

In answer to the questions posed:

1. There was no heat pack in the box.
2. Shipping from California to Illinois. It arrived ~ 11:50 am and temps were probably in the upper 70's or low 80's at the time.
3. The breeder did say he would have replaced it, but mine was the last one he had (which I knew before this happened) and so no replacement. If he had another to replace, he said I would have to pay for shipping as you stated. However, I probably would have just let it go at that point, because I feel like I would have to be crazy to pay for shipping again (which was more than the cost of the snake) given my only experience with this breeder was receiving a dead animal. If I can recover the costs from FedEx for the first shipping my attitude on this may change, but don't know that for sure.
4. There was no newspaper packing around the delicup, but there was a Styrofoam lid.

If nothing else, I think I'm done trying to buy a second snake this way. If I ever do get another, it will be in person where I can take it home immediately.

Thanks for the quick answers.

So how snug was the deli cup in the box? I and others pack newspaper around the animal so it doesn't shift too much and as an insulator.

The temps seem fine from where it took off and where it landed however the temps in the air are significantly lower than they are on the ground so there's a chance it froze in the air.

In this case, the breeder should refund the price of the snake because he doesn't have another one and it's unlikely you'll care enough to wait for another one to be produced.

I know the feeling you're going through. I bought a pair of snakes for $200 a few months ago. The male died in transit. I spent $100 on shipping already. I then had to replace the male but the breeder didn't have any replacements so we had to source a male from another breeder, cost me an additional $20 on top of the original price plus another shipment of $100. A pair of snakes cost me $420. More than double the original cost.

It sucks but it happens. I recommend not letting it fully discourage you from buying from around the Country.

[jjhill001]

What did they use as filler in the box? Just paper?

[whistlepig]

Aaron and Jjhill, I checked again and the deli cup fit securely in the box. no filler, just air. I think you're right, she probably froze to death. I'll try and not get discouraged, but when you're wary to begin with and you get burned your first try, it tends to reinforce the wariness. Anyway, if I do try again, would you say that California is too far away (ie too long a plane ride) and I should avoid that distance? Get assurances that some source of heat and insulation will be used? Any other tips besides making sure to get a live delivery guarantee?

[jjhill001]

Originally Posted by Scubadiver59

Compared to what I've received my snakes in, it's a piss poor styrofoam inner container. It should've been a one piece bottom with a top that fits snugly in place. The white container could've been a bit smaller for such a small snake, to make it feel more secure.

Also, that snake looks a little on the emaciated side, though it could be due to the decay process...from what I see, it looks sickly.

Well first off the package needs to be labeled that it has live animals in it. So first mistake.

2nd when shipping you need to have SOMETHING that absorbs impact, whether that is balled up newspaper, packing peanuts, etc so that when the cup gets jostled around the snake isn't banging into the walls of the box.

Without it being labelled with live animals it could have been dropped, kicked whatever. The snake could have overheated or froze but in my experience and I've had snakes delivered from Texas to Ohio in both cold and warm temps and I've never had something like this happened. 70s 80s is about perfect temps for shipping so I honestly can't see why it would have just died. 24 hours is not that long and even if it cooled off a bit it shouldn't have killed it. Unless it sat in the back of a box truck in Cali for hours and hours it should have been fine.

Personally I'd consider putting up a BOI report but that's just with the knowledge I have of your situation. Idk who it is or how much experience they have or what reputation but that's crap packaging either way.

[jjhill001]

Also California requires a species label that includes scientific name and common name on it somewhere either in or on the package (can't remember) as well.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by whistlepig

Aaron and Jjhill, I checked again and the deli cup fit securely in the box. no filler, just air. I think you're right, she probably froze to death. I'll try and not get discouraged, but when you're wary to begin with and you get burned your first try, it tends to reinforce the wariness. Anyway, if I do try again, would you say that California is too far away (ie too long a plane ride) and I should avoid that distance? Get assurances that some source of heat and insulation will be used? Any other tips besides making sure to get a live delivery guarantee?

Use a more reputable shipper or breeder is the other thing. Someone who uses Ship Your Reptile or Reptile Express in the States would be ideal. As those carriers will not allow someone to use them if they don't do it properly.

It's possible the snake died of stressed from the travelling but that is a rarity. Distance isn't an issue. Reptiles fly around the world all the time for days and they do fine. I personally think it was the slightly bad package job coupled with probably a cold plane ride.

Originally Posted by jjhill001

Well first off the package needs to be labeled that it has live animals in it. So first mistake.

2nd when shipping you need to have SOMETHING that absorbs impact, whether that is balled up newspaper, packing peanuts, etc so that when the cup gets jostled around the snake isn't banging into the walls of the box.

Without it being labelled with live animals it could have been dropped, kicked whatever. The snake could have overheated or froze but in my experience and I've had snakes delivered from Texas to Ohio in both cold and warm temps and I've never had something like this happened. 70s 80s is about perfect temps for shipping so I honestly can't see why it would have just died. 24 hours is not that long and even if it cooled off a bit it shouldn't have killed it. Unless it sat in the back of a box truck in Cali for hours and hours it should have been fine.

Personally I'd consider putting up a BOI report but that's just with the knowledge I have of your situation. Idk who it is or how much experience they have or what reputation but that's crap packaging either way.

Reason it could have become too cold or hot is the belly of the plane where the cargo goes wasn't kept at the same temp as the cabin. This usually leaves a good 20 degree difference so it's sitting around the high 50's.

Also, it's possible because if it was poorly labelled and dropped it off that it sat on the tarmac for hours before being loaded. However that would be due to a heat death and the animal would probably stink more.

[daisymaisy]

Aw, what a bummer. I think a DOA is fairly unusual, but it can happen. It doesn't sound like the seller is being very helpful - not someone I would order from, that's for sure. There are better ones out there though, and there are always expos and reptile shows that are good places to pick up new snakes.

[Albert Clark]

Man, sorry for your loss. There are specific guidelines for shipping reptiles as we all know and it appears at least a couple of them were not adhered to by the breeder. No air holes on the four sides of the shipping box is telling. No padding in the internal area of the box is definitely a violation of shipping practices. Air holes are supposed to go directly through the box and styrofoam into the internal area. Tha lack of padding shows that the animal suffered multiple and continued instability, probably leading to sustained traumatic injuries including head injury. Coupled with a enviornment that was already low in adequate circulating oxygen makes for a recipe of the final outcome. SAD for real that the breeder even thinks he's not responsible. Sounds like a case for the Fauna Classifieds BOI.

[whistlepig]

There are better ones out there though, and there are always expos and reptile shows that are good places to pick up new snakes.

Yeah, I'm getting over my disappointment and back to looking.

No air holes on the four sides of the shipping box is telling. No padding in the internal area of the box is definitely a violation of shipping practices. Air holes are supposed to go directly through the box and styrofoam into the internal area. Tha lack of padding shows that the animal suffered multiple and continued instability, probably leading to sustained traumatic injuries including head injury.

The lack of air holes was what I initially thought brought about her demise, in fact the package was pretty much air tight (with tape along all of the seams). But then I thought I saw somewhere on there that they don't use that much air in 24 hrs. As far as the padding, though there wasn't any, the box was of a size that the deli cup fit in without any movement possible, so I don't think that there was much jostling.

SAD for real that the breeder even thinks he's not responsible. Sounds like a case for the Fauna Classifieds BOI.

Yeah, I have a review all written up for the BOI, but it was my wife who actually bought and talked to the breeder (it was supposed to be a birthday gift for me) and she wants me to hold off to see if we get money back from FedEx and if not, to allow the breeder one more chance to offer a refund. But if he doesn't I'll post it and I know he looks there because he's selling snakes on that site and has even used the BOI to complain about another breeder who, ironically, did give him a refund on a snake, but didn't do it as fast as he would have liked.

[SerpentineDream]

FedEx will typically issue refunds only to the shipper. So even if you paid for the shipping, the seller paid FedEx. He would need to file the claim and then refund you once they paid him.